posted 09-23- 09:15 AM            

Modified Deadlines (see later post)-

Final submission Deadline: Oct 9, 2000
(modified from Oct 1)
Beta Plane Pack release: Oct 15, 2000
(modified from Oct 9)
Plane Pack release: Nov 1, 2000
(modified from Oct 15)
(if all goes well)

Candidates for inclusion: may include tested beta releases, all contest planes. If you aren't able to post independently check simfiles for a place to post it. If possible this pack will unify the contest, and all other agreed to entries. It will not include WWI planes (to keep this a bit more organized).

Please do not post comments or suggestions here just links to updated planes only.

posted 09-23- 10:59 AM               

And heres the P-39Q just incase: http://argonv.tripod.com/Downloads/P39Q.zip

The Mistel 1: http://argonV.tripod.com/Downloads/Mistel1.zip

And the Mistel 3: http://argonv.tripod.com/Downloads/Mistel3.zip

------------------

-=Make sims, not hype=-

Visit My Site! http://ArgonV.tripod.com/My_Page.html

posted 09-23- 01:25 PM            

here are my concerns:

1) It seems that people are designing all these really cool jets. I think thats awesome, but I'm really just a WW2 kind a guy. I just would'nt be interested in flying those planes, I mean are'nt there plenty of great jet games out there already?
I really think there should be seperate plane packs for ww1, ww2, Korea, etc.. I have a pretty fast computer but how big is my SDOE file going to get?

2) The keyboard views F9, f10, f11, f12 are different with every plane, all the original planes have f10 as a close up for the gunsight, which is really helpful in combat, but with many new planes you hit f10 and either nothing happens or the view is really off. As far as the other cockpit views, it seems theres should be an agreement of sorts, maybe f9 is allways airspeed, f11 is allways altitude, f12 engine stuff, (manifold, fuel, et.), I know this is irrelevant because a lot of people fly with HUD on, but hey! there has to be other traditionalists out there to right?

3) Is there anyway to have cockpits open when the game starts? It would be such a sweet touch of realism if you have to close your cockpit before starting the engine, I've gotten pretty good at designing missions where my planes start in the hanger. If that cockpit could be open already that would be cool. It seems that it would be pretty easy to do.

Well thats my two cents,

Greetings to everyone!!!

Peace-Sturm Spieler

posted 09-23- 02:22 PM               

Great stuff spin, I was hoping someone would do this.

I had ideas but I know I couldn't pull it off. Not with this work thing anyways. LOL.

That deadline is going to come fast though. wa. I would have been a little more conservitive.

Sturm Spieler's comments

1. I would say that korea jets should be in along with secret weapons of the L(how ever you spell that LOL just for those what if mission.

Then maybe pete and nat can get together and make a modern jet pack for us that want to use them.

2. I totally agree but getting the plane makers to adhere to a standard is like trying to pull teeth it seems, not bashing them but its true.

3. Not sure, it would be cool but I think theres a reason. Actually one would be if you added drag to them being open (hopefully someday they will) then the AI would be at a disadvantage cause they would never close them.

I have high hopes for the new pack. Get those planes in shape and lets get this off the ground. I can't wait to get rid of the miss matches and my crazy aircraft folder.

posted 09-23- 03:02 PM               

Please wait until November. You are hardly giving us any warning about this.

posted 09-23- 03:16 PM               

As I was looking through the Training screen I noticed that, especially Germany, there are is a lot of scrolling to do! Loads of a/c but they are not sorted alphabetically!

Now how hard would it be to have another little box up higher than the countries and planes box with sections like WW1, WW2, Korea, Modern, Experimental and so on.

This could clean up a lot of things and make the game lots more presentable. Could this be done?

I know its a small thing but it could help so much!

Thanks

posted 09-23- 04:17 PM               

2. I totally agree, please sort out the listing (alphabetically) of the planes. Who was it that posted here a while ago saying he spent a day polishing up everybody's work and that as builders we should put that little extra effort in, etc etc etc? Perhaps he would volunteer his expertise in the area? Hell, if it's just a matter of playing with ppfs I'll volunteer to do it, but if its something more I don't have time.

Btw, please check all japanese planes going into the pack for nations compliance - scramble and training missions as well as default hangar assignment likely need tweaking, easy stuff.

Werner

posted 09-23- 04:30 PM               

As for the changing of the loadouts (countries, bomb warhead decreases...) hangar pics, training missions, hangar missions and getting the correct country for them all, and tweaking of the sm files.... well Ive already done that for myself!

posted 09-23- 06:34 PM               

Did you rewrite the scripts too or just change the loadout?

posted 09-23- 06:42 PM               

I just sent ya a pic of what I was talking about further up on this thread.

posted 09-23- 06:45 PM               

I also wrote a lot of text for the aircraft in the Hangar section and added in a lot of missing cutaways. I cant do the Stats pics however as I have not photoshop. (I wish I did, Im rather handy with it)

So all in all I did a total revamp of the SDOE GUI part. Later, Im going to go back and put in the correct medals for each country under the missions. Im also going to go back and double check everything when I get more time........

I can re-do the stock missions as well. Ive already redone a few of the stock Air-to-Air Combat missions.

Keep in mind I didnt do all of this at once. It took a while over many many days.......

posted 09-23- 06:56 PM               

I do know you would have to change all the loadouts to be strWWI/Germany, strWWII/Great Britain, strKorean War/United States etc.... (strEra/Country format)

And to get the sub-group countries of those different era aircraft would be even a tougher one to figure out. IMO it would be a mess really. You would have to click on lets say WWI then Germany to fly the WWI German aircraft. Too much clicking.......

posted 09-23- 09:15 PM               

Werner

posted 09-23- 10:30 PM               

First, on the P-51, I am still trying to find out what is causing Condor to CTD sometimes, also Pang is working on the FM, but is having trouble using the Beta patches. He used these as tools to get the FM right. Furthermore this may not give him enough time to complete the FM work.

Second, I have improved the problem of the pilot bailing out when the ailerons have been disabled, but this needs more public testing.

Third, I have reworked the damaged landing gear when lowered at too high a speed and I am adding Brake failure and Flat tires to the damage model. I need a little more time to work out the details. This is a simple idea and should be easy to add to other planes.

I would like to have a final Beta to test.

Once the details are worked out on the P-51, the P-38 shouldn't take very long to modify the DM.

Finally, the WW I fly-in at WPAFB is next weekend and several of us will be attending, so not much work will be done then.

You don't have to hold up the new pack for us, but I would like to see some of the other planes that are close to final make it in also.

posted 09-24- 01:05 AM               

I have to prepare for a major industry trade show next week and I have mutiple site-installs sheduled after that ...

Suffice to say, The 109's and the F-86F will not be ready for this PlanePack.

On a more personal note ... As much as I appreciate your taking on the PlanePack along with working on your other projects... There is a "right" and a "wrong" way to go about it and yours is wrong.

Strong are tactics and setting deadlines without discussion with the community really rubs me the wrong way.

posted 09-24- 04:32 AM               

A hard submission deadline isn't bad.. last time someone tried putting a pack together everyone said wait for the pe-2.. now the pe-2 is out and it's other things.. there's probably no 'good time' but maybe if the deadline is moved farther away it will give people time to tidy up their projects and we can have something very cool and stable to play with during the xmas holidays

TS

------------------
Patch It!

posted 09-24- 04:37 AM               

Yep setting a date is a good thing but setting a date not even 2 weeks from now might be a little soon.

As I would like to see some of the major developments that are 3 weeks away in the next plane pack.

Maybe ask how close most people are in there major projects that would concivebly be included in a plane pack what the ETA is.

Then scale it around that time frame.

posted 09-24- 09:56 AM            

You know, I knew this would create a debate but I had hoped it would be handled outside of this section, now I am going to have pages and pages to sort through to find what I need to do this.

In reply to the concerns above, the reason for the quick deadline is simple, for those that can't make it - don't stress yourself out.

So to Pete Hawk, Snickers, Raider, Zurawski and all other developers, I am disappointed your most recent versions aren't ready for online (not necessarily what you are planning to add/improve - but what you've already done). I really would like them online but I'm not sure if waiting to December for them makes sense. I don't intend this to be a 6 month cycle anymore - I believe it needs to be a more regular update program and have some ideas for this to minimize download updates. Like Tailslide said, the Pe-2 was almost ready for the last pack but didn't make it. As I see it, there is an ongoing evolution of all potential entries and everytime we try to standardize there are always people that are just outside the window for inclusion. If I delay to December then there will be entries like the PBY, Mitchell and others that will almost be ready.

Zur, I'm sorry I rubbed you the wrong way, I'm just trying to bring some organization back to online play - before things get out of hand.

ArgonV, - alphabetical listing, training mission updates and other mods. Interesting stuff - not sure whether you're offering this stuff as an improvement to include or what.

Nations guys, I agree with having the nations pack out first to support the plane pack. This will ensure plane developers have appropriate nations support in their releases. But then again what planes are released for inclusion as online standard for the new countries (ie beyond Russia, Italy and Japan)?

Now, based on everybody's input above and the fact that I'm absolutely petrified at the idea of this whole thing I'm going to modify the dates a bit.

I won't please everybody - but hey c'est la vie.

Final submission Deadline: Oct 9, 2000
Beta Plane Pack release: Oct 15, 2000
Plane Pack release: Nov 1, 2000

Dogma - any chance you'll be able to help with an install program?

posted 09-24- 10:09 AM               

As for the training/hangar missions.... For some training and hangar missions you have to have certain terrain addons for them to work. I can give you the missions that dont use the terrain.

I can supply you with 95% of the loadouts that I did the bomb warhead decresements to. (I also have the correct planes in the corrosponding countries i.e. The Zeros are under Japan) Alot of people were complaining about how large the warheads are so I went thru all the loadouts that I had and decreased the warheads for them.

posted 09-24- 11:17 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by spin:
Nations guys, I agree with having the nations pack out first to support the plane pack. This will ensure plane developers have appropriate nations support in their releases. But then again what planes are released for inclusion as online standard for the new countries (ie beyond Russia, Italy and Japan)

---

Thanks Spin! It'll be out saturday (final version) so you can check it out. In the meantime however, the new version will include France and Australia. I believe that Jedi has an Aussie Spit he's been holding back and there may be a few other planes as well (French Spit, Aussie "I'm not a Mustang, honest!", etc)

Werner

posted 09-24- 12:18 PM               

If we're talking FULL plane pack, I can do something with the Corsairs and I have about 3 Spitfires I could probably whip into shape by the END of October, but not a week from now.

If you want a Dauntless and maybe a Hellcat, we're looking at Christmas presents on those tho.

Here's the link to the lanc...
http://sites.netscape.net/jeditaub/Downloads/dambustr.ZIP

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--jedi--

posted 09-24- 05:11 PM            

You have the idea, getting new existing planes standardized and moving on. The updates to your corsairs probably would make sense to wait until a Dec or Jan 1st pack (1 or 2 months after the one I'm looking at now - the frequency of these will depend on the updates needed). The Hellcat and Dauntless would wait until they're ready.

posted 09-25- 10:13 AM               

One problem, since I do not have my own computer right now (I sneak a peek into this forum from work every once and awhile), any problems that arise in Beta testing will have to be subcontracted out to solve.

One known problem NOT in the readme: I have received two e-mails from people who have said that they CTD a split second AFTER seeing the cockpit. I have no idea what causes this and am going to post a topic in the Tech Talk forum to see if anybody has any ideas.

posted 09-25- 11:27 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sturm Spieler:
1) It seems that people are designing all these really cool jets. I think thats awesome, but I'm really just a WW2 kind a guy.

---

I've _very_ concerned about this too. The current engine simply cannot simulate high speed flight properly, it knows nothing of compression effects, nothing of transonics, and nothing about swept wings. These planes simply will not fly correctly.

Guys, there's a lot of other planes we need first. They might not be as cool as a F-86, but that's _not_ an F-86.

quote:

---

2) The keyboard views F9, f10, f11, f12 are different with every plane

---

To which I would also like to add that the planes all have the "initial eye" set to different places too. Get into the 109 and you're zoomed out, in the 190 you're pulled right up.

This needs to be cleaned up.

And finally, my own pet peave, that the names are entered differently for every plane. Look at the 109's for instance, is there any possible permutation of "Me", "109" and a letter/number combo that isn't represented? Yes I KNOW this will break the missions, but isn't that something a regex will fix?