posted 09-21- 10:41 AM               

~Nat~

posted 09-21- 12:12 PM               

AHHH!!! Lookout guys, a plane with it's windows all fogged up is making a run at that cardboard ship mock-up with a missile! Duck!

Werner

posted 09-21- 07:35 PM               

Also though, my first message over there was polite and rather nice, I only got a little upperty when they tried making out about how good EAW is and how dumb SDOE is and our advances.

posted 09-21- 07:52 PM               

http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/010783.html
http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/010764.html

LOL

Plus a small message in the original post LOL

posted 09-21- 08:21 PM               

quote:

---

How would you guys take it if one of those 'Eaw guys' came here to post similar messages?

---

I think I'd react in much the same manner, or maybe do nothing at all as it ends up grinding into slams anyway. Personally, I think its kinda sad that there are 'camps' in the first place. We all enjoy many of the same things. How the hell did all this 'we're better than you' crap get started in the first place? Oh, I remember, it all starts with a single match. What a pile.

posted 09-21- 08:26 PM               

P.S. Some one here just posted a Russian skin for the spit. You should get it and post that for the benefit of the guy who posted the photo.

posted 09-21- 09:07 PM               

I think its all in fun spyder. It wouldn't bug me at all. I can't think of what they could show off but Hey go for it. I think the little arguments are quite funny.

maybe its just me

posted 09-21- 10:55 PM               

Hows that>? Sv>?

posted 09-21- 11:12 PM               

Most of us like to sacrifice number aircraft in the air and terrain size for better 3D models and real physics modeling. They get emersion by reliving mass attacks and playing dynamic campaigns, we get emersion from piloting aircraft that are more that just flying pixels on rails and have real 3d cockpits instead of pupet-show stages.

What the holy-sacred perfect EAW people forget however, is that we are the underdog, not them LOL! They are a best selling sim, we are a dozen guys barely holding critcal mass. And they think that we are gloating? They bashed us for years now, F them and their precious little egos - now they are on the defensive side ha! Now they, with their new meager hacking ability, feel the pain of playing 2nd fiddle to us!

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 09-21- 11:28 PM               

Hear, hear SV!! I feel exactly the same way!

Werner

posted 09-21- 11:38 PM               

If we build up the Korean stuff that will really piss them off.. LMAO We're like Microsoft here...

"What and where would you like to fly today?"

Infact.. I think thats my new moto

~Nat~

posted 09-21- 11:55 PM               

That said, I have to ask why you people feel justified in coming over to our forum and making a posting that is purely intended to create heated discourse and argument. Bragging is cool - if you create something, post away in your own forum. I'm sure that creating a torpedo is a wonderful advance for you. However, what could possibly make you think that we need to know about it? Furthermore, why do you feel the need to do so in such a manner? A topic such as "Hey, thought you might be interested in the latest SDOE advance" will be much more well-received than "I don't mean to toot my own horn, but uh..." Finally, you don't exactly endear yourselves to us by posting pictures of your own mods when someone has posted pictures of something he's worked on. That's simply rude and uncalled for.

Nat, I will not directly reply to your comment about EAW not having to offer what SDOE does because, as Sv so sagaciously said, they are polar opposites in terms of strong points. SDOE has pretty graphics and its own physics model. Okay, EAW has a dynamic campaign, more airplanes at one time, and bigger terrain blocks. Who cares? You people have obviously decided that SDOE fits your bill, we have decided that EAW fits ours. How can you possibly second-guess someone's decision as to what they like?

I must, however, disagree with Sv on his point about EAW disciples as he continues. I cannot think of one time when EAW fans have come over to the SDOE board with similar intent, and if so I certainly would not condone nor participate in it. While our sim may have sold more than yours, you evidently still have contact with developers. What, pray tell, happened to Microprose and the EAW design team? Despite the thousands of signatures to the EAW petition, we still haven't gotten access to source code of any sort.

At any rate, we are missing the whole point. SDOE was designed with an open architecture for modifications just as you have done. EAW, on the other hand, has not had any support from Microprose in modifications aside from Picpac. Again, that falls into the definition of differing design philosophies. Okay, that's all good - so why do you equate your torpedo to ours? They were created under totally different circumstances. That's like cheering because your CART car beat out a Chevy Nova. EAW simply was not designed to be modified. Everything that we've gotten out of it has come at the price of tedious hex-editing and trial-and-error work.

I have tried to keep myself civil because I don't want to cause a flame war. I honestly debated whether I should just let you guys go, but I felt that my opinion as an EAW-ite should be heard. When it comes down to it, it's like Gustang said - we are all propsim fans. Our community is dwindling, and we're arguing over different personal likes and dislikes. Let's stop cross-forum flaming and concentrate on keeping the propsim community friendly and alive, okay?

KMHPaladin
HarkiK@rpi.edu

posted 09-22- 12:09 AM               

TS

------------------
Patch It!

posted 09-22- 12:22 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by KMHPaladin:
SDOE was designed with an open architecture for modifications just as you have done. EAW, on the other hand, has not had any support from Microprose in modifications aside from Picpac.

---

posted 09-22- 12:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tailslide:

Hi Paladin, yes we've had a few EAW flamers posting here, not many but a few.

---

Prove it.

I don't remember any and I've been here for over a year. I can remember the old board although I never posted there.

Never has a mass attempt to stir up shit like this on another sims board been done without provocation .

It's pathetic and that is all it is. I'm really disappointed in your attitudes. I'm never going to cheer for this sim again. Which I did often on Combatsim. Thats the last time a provide a link to here or any other SDOE site elsewhere.

posted 09-22- 12:43 AM               

http://www.combatsim.com/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Off-Topic&number=35&DaysPrune=2&LastLogin=

And Aladar, I would hope that you have the ability to read my post and realize that I am not "whining" about the lack of customizability built into EAW as compared to SDOE. If you persist in believing that something accomplished in an environment designed for modification can be compared to something created in an environment that is hostile to modification, then I fundamentally question your logic.

Oh, and study constitutional law. You have the right to freedom of speech only when it applies to the US government. Since Combatsim is not part of the US government (as a matter of fact, it's a Canadian entity) you have no guaranteed right to free speech. They can censor you any way they please.

posted 09-22- 01:38 AM               

Their getting very cut!
i couldn't stop laughing for hours after reading that!

posted 09-22- 03:00 AM               

Aladar.......shut up!

Why should EAW care about our torpedo, and more to the point, what have you gained by stirring thm up with an 'our sim is better than your sim' post on their board.

Do you want them to post crap all over ours?

That would annoy me, so why start a war.....stick to the ones in the games.

Oh, by the way, I play EAW as well, and there are things it does well. Lots of planes at good framerates on my meagre PC for one. There are also lots of things SDOE does well that EAW doesn't...detailed models, terrain, user mods etc.

If I want a 'sim' I play SDOE, if I want a game, I play EAW.

There have been posts about the future of the genre as a whole, with major flight sim projects being cut or shelved, what future have we got if we don't stand together?

Together we stand, divided we bicker like a bunch of immature children (apologies to those who actually are) spoiling for a playground fight.....

posted 09-22- 03:11 AM               

Let's not become like the guys over at the Aces High forums now, please!

posted 09-22- 07:50 AM               

Don't forget that history here, our authors put allot of effort in a sim considered by almost all sim flyers to be the worst sim every created. Not only that, but we are brain-washed and screwed by Activision and Michael Harrison personally. We never had a chance to enjoy our work in any popular context...

EAW, by contrast, has enjoyed being the hands-down best WW2 sim ever. And let me tell you, as a SDOE guy I am made very well aware of this fact anywhere I go outside this forum.

I would never have the guts (or bad sense ) to post like Aladar did - but I think that Joseph Cotton's attitute is alot more crazy. It seems that according to Joe, the SDOE have fallen from grace LOL. What a silly thing - I'll try not to lose any sleep over the loss of Mr Cotton's ensorsement

The EAW teams are feeling our pain right now. They know how much work this is and how important the communty's reaction is. With EAW there is a large positive audience, in SDOE we have ony a few buddies, rarely even anyone on-line to fly with - so can't you imagine why some here may get a bit over passionate about pushing SDOE? If EAW was about to die and you had tons of work - great work, put into it, wouldn't you have a tendancy to promote your sim a bit more than might be effective?

Also, by the way, although OpenPlane is an open system, it is still a complex task that required the creation of many high level tools dedicated to OpenPlane editing. Also, because the physics modeling is so life-like, creating flight models is as black an art as hacking EAW's code. Sure it is easy to set parameters, but try finding the correct specs... and most importnantly, interpreting a flight model is a subjective art - this makes it an extra large challenge to get various aircraft to perform relative to each other and relative to the community's expectations.

Though SDOE is weak and flawed, the OpenPlane engine is awesome. People's lack of vision of what the OpenPlane engine can do is a tragedy. Anyone who really has a love of flight sims should see the magic in OpenPlane, if not the sucess of SDOE as a WW2 sim.

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 09-22- 08:09 AM               

Where else do you get a sim with WWI, WWII, Korea and Gulf War planes in a packet taking less than one gig on your HD??? A Janes game with all that would be 40 gigs on peoples HD's !!!

We also have, by far, the funniest, most helpful, and nice-atmosphere user community Everybody helps making it better and better every day!!!!!!!

posted 09-22- 10:01 AM               

It wasn't cool. I'm not sure what your intentions were except to just "stir up the hornets nest," and that's one thing that used to be done in the past by a couple guys that resulted in the forum being permenantly shut down. Just stick to building planes, not starting wars. Leave that to the Junior pilots. We are a mature crowd here and have gotten along fine for a LONG time without any crap being started by any of our campers.

posted 09-22- 10:06 AM               

Jeez...that EAW forum sounds pretty cool to me...

posted 09-22- 01:18 PM               

Aladar, I have realized that feeding immaturity only makes it worse. If you amuse yourself by trying to tick other people off, then your problems run far deeper than anything I can attempt to combat with intelligent discussion. At this point, I will cease wasting my time in the pointless effort to expose you to the light of day.

Again as Wakeup and I have said, our genre is in danger of being wiped out because there simply isn't enough money in flightsims for big-name companies. How best could we combat this - separated in arguing camps, or providing a united front? I think that we should put aside the childish actions of a few in the interest of peace.

Sv, I know very well how you feel. I waited for some time for SDOE to come out, because I had been given it as a "we'll get it when it's released" Christmas gift. Before I got impatient and looked elsewhere, I saw with growing horror the way the game was nailed in previews, incorrect flight models, you know the details far better than I do. I can understand how you must feel about your accomplishments and the small audience that they can be showed to. However, as you touched upon, Aladar went too far. Topics like "thought you might be interested..." are generally much better received than "toot my own horn, uh..."

Also, I realize that given the flight model layout in SDOE creating new models is not an easy task - don't think I don't believe a lot of work went into them. However, again you must realize that while your work can be equated to navigating the Atlantic Ocean with a Columbian-era map, ours is more like sailing the Atlantic without any map. That said, I admire the planes that you guys have created. I don't necessarily want a Harrier to bounce Me-262s with, but the flexibility of the OpenPlane system is obviously wonderful.

And Semmern, let's agree to disagree about the community... we both have very fervent supporters of our respective games, as this issue has proved... so let's leave it at that .

Have a good one folks,

KMHPaladin
HarkiK@rpi.edu

posted 09-22- 01:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sv:
KMHPaladin,

I think that Joseph Cotton's attitute is alot more crazy. It seems that according to Joe, the SDOE have fallen from grace LOL. What a silly thing - I'll try not to lose any sleep over the loss of Mr Cotton's ensorsement

---

I'm crazy am I? Here is a quote from you.

"those holy-sacred perfect EAW people forget however, is that we are the underdog, not them LOL! They are a best selling sim, we are a dozen guys barely holding critcal mass, F them and their precious little egos - now they are on the defensive side ha!"

How constructive a statment is that? I spent many posts smoothing over bad feelings between these two sims that I enjoy playing. Just for some BS coming from the very people I mention in many positive posts over there. I was one of very few who did so, I've spoke of the great advances made by it's camp and turned many people towards SDOE.

posted 09-22- 02:31 PM               

Hmm, which is better between:

Quake 3 vs Unreal Tournament
Age of Empires vs Command & Conquer
Half Life vs Deus Ex
Grand Prix Legends vs Grand Prix 3
Mortal Kombat vs whatever other fighting game is popular
SDOE vs EAW

Pretty trivial differences, aren't they? Personally, I like more than one in each of those categories.

Aladar, Nat, going onto an EAW forum and saying, "SDOE rocks! Look at what we're doing! I thought you might find this interesting." is okay. You'll prolly get some people saying, "Hey, that's cool." and they'll appreciate the pretty pictures.

OTOH, saying, "SDOE rocks! Too bad you can't do that with your sucky sim!" is troll bait. You're not sharing your joy, you're declaring superiority.