AI Bombing... What works, what doesnt and what could be done about it?

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Author	Topic: AI Bombing... What works, what doesnt and what could be done about it?
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 12:36 PM Well, it seems that many of us are having problems getting the AI to bomb targets, or to get ALL the AI planes to bomb targets. I dont really know what works and what doesnt, but I bring this up because I just got finished making a few missions where the AI needs to bomb. I made a few (probably not new) discoveries about mission making and actually got 6 Ju-88s to drop all their bombs on target, and fly away safely (considering theres flak and enemy fighters flying around) I also made another mission where 6 Pe-2s have to bomb a target and got all of them to drop their bombs and hit the target aswell. So I ask the community, what problems are there with AI bombing? And what help (if any) do you need to get the AI to bomb targets? Please give your inputs.... P.S. I heard somewhere there is a problem with getting 4-engined bombers to drop their bombs with AI flying them. Is this true? I'll go try that out aswell. IP: Logged
Jeeves Pilot	posted 08-09- 12:45 PM My...aren't we just the bundle of energy... ------------------ Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless! Jeeves =FC= IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 12:48 PM Hehehe I was reading thru the fourm and saw that many people were complaining about or trying to figure out how to get the AI to bomb. So last night I decided to do a few bombing missions to see what the big deal was... my gosh what a big deal! It took me 1 1/2 hours to figure out what works and what doesnt. So with this I decided to start this topic. [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 08-09-2000).] IP: Logged
Whirlwind Pilot	posted 08-09- 01:03 PM Ok, Mr. Bean, what doesn't work? IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 01:26 PM How to get ALL AI to bomb: Ok just for starters make a mission with a formation of 3 B-17s. Give them a bomb loadout (duh) and mission objective with a 90% destruction factor. Now go to the waypoints menu and start the bomber say at 10,000 ft. Now find a target somewheres on the map, make sure its the opposite side of whatever your bombers side is. (axis or allied) Give that target a mission objective destruction factor of 90% Now for the bomber waypoints..... add a waypoint that goes toward the direction of the target but that ends not even half way there. For that waypoint make sure the action is bomb and the duration is 0. Now add another waypoint that goes straight to the target and passes it only VERY slightly. Make sure that waypoints action is normal and the duration 0. Last but not least make sure your bomber formations heading is that toward the target and that the bombers start out in the air. If anyone wants to see a mission I did first hand that works, say so and I'll send one to ya. (No charge, Hehehe ) Now for what doesnt work...... If you dont have the destruction factors set, it wont work right. If you dont have the countries set right (axis or allied) it wont work right. The first waypoint MUST be bomb and end before it reaches the target or it wont work right. The second waypoint must pass the target slightly or it wont work right. The second waypoint is a good idea to be normal or it most likely wont work right. Tell me if anyone is having problems with this. P.S. I just did a 4-engined (B-17) bombing mission and the B-17s all droped their bombs and hit the target. [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 08-09-2000).] IP: Logged
Whirlwind Pilot	posted 08-09- 01:39 PM Your explination is great, but the reason why it works eludes me. All this time, I just had the bomb path go over the target, and then turned the bombers for home using a different path. You might also want to narrow down the bomb path so it doesn't go across any other possible targets. Thanks, ArgonV, I'll try it tonight. IP: Logged
Condor Pilot	posted 08-09- 02:26 PM If what your saying about stoping the bombing waypoint before the target is true, this could be huge for bombing mission!! I will try asap too! Thanks Argon Condor out ------------------ IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 02:34 PM Yup! Just make sure the first waypoint is set to bomb, and it stops at least halfway before it reaches the target; and the second waypoint is set to normal and stops right after the target and you are set! Massive bombing campaign time! IP: Logged
Jerry Pilot	posted 08-09- 02:36 PM Argon, what happens when the bombers start on the ground? IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 02:39 PM LoL, most bombing missions have the bombers start out in the air already towards their target. If you have the bombers on their way towards the target and their altitude is set to 0, they will be on the ground! If you want the bombers to start from an airfield, thats dandy. Just give them a taking off waypoint and then begin the bomb run waypoints. Any more questions? IP: Logged
Jerry Pilot	posted 08-09- 02:48 PM So starting on the ground makes no difference? They still all bomb? I ask because there is a great B-17 campaign that came with maps and pilot instructions that I was really getting into but the bombers wouldn't bomb so I gave up. I can't remember who did it and I'm not home to check. The pilot's name is Joe Young. If the author could revise the campaign to incorporate your fixes it would be outstanding! [This message has been edited by Jerry (edited 08-09-2000).] IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 04:31 PM As far as I can see and know, starting on the ground makes no diff. what so ever if you set up the waypoints correctly. IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 08-09- 04:34 PM Spanky here... Well that is certianly FU*Ked up. I hope it works but i'm not going to like it LOL. I'll have to add that to my mission tut on combatsim. Thanks for the info man, I'll try it tonight. BTW What made you think of doing that? And one question, Are you saying that the first waypoint has to be bomb or just the way point Before the one that you want to bomb? IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 08-09- 04:42 PM Can you post a sample mission Argon? You're the first person to figure this out ! TS IP: Logged
G-man Pilot	posted 08-09- 04:45 PM Argon, Thanks for bringing the topic up and offering a solution. I am primarily an offline player of SDOE and this is by far my biggest gripe about the game. I have created what I think are pretty good missions only to be frustrated by the lack of action by the AI. Two things; you mention to put the waypoint that ends the bomb action just past the target and then you say to put it right before the target. Which is it? Second, do you know if this logic works with "sweep" action for ground attacks? Thank you again, G-man P.S. Could you send me a mission that works? My address is in my profile. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 04:52 PM G-man, Spanky... There are two important waypoints to have the AI bomb. The first is before the target and its action is bomb and the second is shortly after the target and its action is normal. If it works with bombing, it SHOULD work with sweep, cap and so on since the Mission Editors waypoint system doesnt change. Sure I'll send you some missions I did. These need the Rhineland Winter terrain (if you dont have that, open up the mission in wordpad and where it says Rhinelandwinter change it to just Rhineland) the Pe-2 (only one mission needs the Pe-2), Ju-88, I-16, Bf-109g and the Yak-3. Just sit back and let the AI bombers do the flying, its so kewl that they all drop their bombs! [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 08-09-2000).] IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 05:03 PM Actually Spanky, you gave me the idea when I read your "Mission How-To" document when you said the waypoint system is like "Act like this for the next two-miles points" So that means if the first of the two bombing waypoints is bomb, the AI will be looking for its target UNTIL it reaches the second of the two bombing waypoints. Thus ALL AI will drop their bombs and not circle around the target. Tailslide, I cant post them (nothing to post them on) but I can send them to you. Read above what they need. Spanky I'll send you the missions too so you can see how its done. P.S. If ANYONE is having trouble understanding how to do this, I can e-mail you some sample missions that have ALL the AI bombing. It looks much simpler that it is to explain. I'm glad this AI bombing problem has finally ben solved! This opens up all new possibilities! [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 08-09-2000).] IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 08-09- 10:21 PM Spanky here... Great stuff man, Thats a good idea about 2 points under the same waypoint. Have you tried it yet? What would we do if they didn't fall under one line though? Or am I REALLY confused now LOL. IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 08-09- 10:24 PM Spanky here.. Oh yeah, My email is different from my profile one now. Its: vergesc@hotmail.com BTW man, What did you think of my article? Was it helpful?, And if you want to post your mission for everyone. Just goto dogmas site at. www.simfiles.com and you can upload it there. Its a great site that he set up for all the people without servers or web space and is REALLY easy to use, Almost easier then uploading it to your own web space. IP: Logged
spin Pilot	posted 08-09- 11:20 PM I hate to burst your bubble but this doesn't solve the problem. But for all you mission guys out there consider this: All AI will bomb targets when: 1. You are not the squad leader (try to be last in the group). 2. You are not in the bombing squadron 3. If you tell the ai to attack your target (press l) when you are squad leader. Note: B17s behave totally goofy when you do this - they immediately go into a dive and don't make any attempt to recover. They do however sometimes drop their bombs. AI will not bomb if you are squad leader. Even when Argon's description is followed. The description above is no different from what is normally done. Waypoints tell the plane what to do from when it passes it to the next one. They don't tell the plane what it was supposed to do before reaching the waypoint. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-09- 11:32 PM spin, wha?!?!? Try my mission and tell me if it does not work. IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 08-09- 11:47 PM Spanky here... Actually Spin. If I read argons description right then he doesn't do it the way we do. He says set your bombers on bomb on the way point BEFORE the one you want them to bomb on. THEN set it to normal and run THAT waypoint line over your target. I have never done it like that And i'm guessing he stumbled apon that by mistake. I havn't had the time to try it either though. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-10- 12:14 AM Spin, I just played my bombing mission and was a wingman in one of the bomber groups. I looked at my flight leader and the other wingman and they both droped their bombs. P.S. How do you target something? IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 08-10- 12:48 AM I dont know how you mission guys do it (Ive never looked) So I'll not go there. Ok Ok Ok..... I was a gunner in the flight leaders plane and my wingman did not drop their bombs. I'll tell you what they did do however. The Pe-2 wingman of mine strafed the target with their guns. Odd eh? If we could figure out how to target ground units we will be set. But if you are a wingman, the AI will drop their bombs. IP: Logged
bomber Pilot	posted 08-10- 01:06 AM Spin you are no fun at all hehehe. But your are right. IP: Logged
Whirlwind Pilot	posted 08-10- 08:44 AM The AI not dropping their bombs when you are flight leader goes back to those hidden messages the bomber formations, etc send each other. When you are the flight leader, that message doesn't get sent. IP: Logged
Bulldog1 Pilot	posted 08-10- 08:57 AM Can you send me the missions please. kirkm@buffalo-stampede.com IP: Logged
spin Pilot	posted 08-11- 12:40 AM Whirlwind, you mentioned a hidden message that gets sent from the wingleader to wingmen to tell them to drop their bombs. Is this when we hear "Bomb's Away"? (Which I can't get my bombardier to say if I'm controlling him.) Perhaps this is a command already in the game that needs a keystroke for it to work. Then we could simply add the communication command to the enter key and "bomb's away" would be spoken and the wingment would know to drop their loadouts when we drop our bombs. IP: Logged
JagdNine Cadet	posted 08-11- 06:04 PM If I could just get the AI fighters to takeoff without running into buildings, Id be happy. Does anyone know if Activision is going to come out with something to help the AI problems or is it impossible at this point. Im kinda new, so excuse my question. IP: Logged
Jerry Pilot	posted 08-11- 08:05 PM ACTIVISION? HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa IP: Logged
Whirlwind Pilot	posted 08-11- 11:27 PM Hmm.. might be, spin. I've tried different variations on the getting all the bombers to drop at once. As it is, they fly around with their bomb bays open. Oh so weird. They even try to land with it open. The ones that don't open and close theirs in a random manner (maybe morse for 'flying toaster'?). IP: Logged

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