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Author Topic:   NEW 5.4 beta 8 FM for testing /offline play
Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-27- 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://tailslide.firelight.dynip.com/Files/TS54Beta8.zip

I found a way to improve the A4 and still keep it accurate.. I modified the prop so it's optimum climb rate is steeper but it still takes 3 minutes to get to 10,000 feet. The climb rate hasn't changed, but the angle has.. I think people who were having trouble climbing with the old one will like this one.

The spit V was a little too fast down low so I added more drag, this should help get the speed bleed in the same ballpark as the other planes too.

TS

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Yardstick
Pilot
posted 07-27- 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yardstick   Click Here to Email Yardstick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tail has the wing angle changed back to it original sweep in this beta? In the last one is was swept back about 5% from its original position and looked very odd. The wings and tail were the only bits of the original model that were correct (MPosis used scale plans to verify this).

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Yardstick painted this

[This message has been edited by Yardstick (edited 07-27-2000).]

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-27- 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I'll bump up the discusson on this I am still looking for someone with AC3D to rotate the wings for me.

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jedi
Pilot
posted 07-27- 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's it? Just rotate the wings? The 190A4, right?

I assume you mean the new version in the link above, and you just want the .lods for the wings moved to their correct angle, not rotated in OPS (which is bad, right?)

Let me take a look at it. Shouldn't be too hard--I hope

My fee is you explain how to increase the energy bleed in turns while still maintaining proper top speeds.

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--jedi--

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-27- 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Right Jedi.. all the switchin objects for the wing have to be rotated and reimported not just the high detail ones.

Did you do the corsair? Here's the airK values for the wings:

F4U-1 Corsair 0.8839
F4U-4 Corsair 0.8559

If it's currently set higher this will make it bleed more speed.

TS


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jedi
Pilot
posted 07-27- 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, I reoriented the wing .lods in AC3D. It looks correct now in OPS, but when I tried to fly the plane in the sim, I got a CTD (both before and after I worked on it).

I'll email you the "corrected" .sm file. You may have to reorient the flaps a little in OPS. I think I got them about right, but I couldn't check it "in game."

Couldn't see any obvious reason for the CTD, and when I swapped in the old model from 5.3, or moved the beta plane out of the folder so the parfile would take over, it worked fine, even using your new airfoils. The Corsair, which also uses some of the new foils for the prop and tailfeathers, also still worked OK, as did the beta Spitfire models. So, at least on my system, there's something in the beta 190 model causing a CTD.

But, at the least, you can extract or smd the .lods for the wings and import them into the new model.

P.S. thanks for the Corsair airK values. I'll give them a shot and see what happens. Now all I have to do is convince Zur to fix the ground handling

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--jedi--

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-27- 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

AH I know it's the drag airfoil I made for the gear, I forgot to include it in the zip. I will add it to the zip tonight.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


Thanks Jedi, it looks great! However you must have rotated some of the pieces in OPStudio, the plane flies as if the wings are pointed sideways or something..
http://tailslide.firelight.dynip.com/Files/TS54Beta9.zip

This version includes the old 190 that flies ok and the new one that looks ok (renamed it funky190.sm). Also included the drag.ppf airfoil make sure to add this line to your startup file:

"aircraft/airfoils/drag.ppf"

TS

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 02:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tried exporting the .LODs and reimporting to the old .sm but they don't line up.. it looks like maybe the wingtip didn't get rotated or rotated by a different amount

[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 07-28-2000).]

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mposis
Pilot
posted 07-28- 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mposis   Click Here to Email mposis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tail,

You have to rotate all the wings LODS and all its children and then position them in the correct place.

All the cannons, rocket launchers, and bomb racks, damage models, and far LODs for the wings also has to be rotated and positioned.
A lot of work.

I forgot the mention the landing gear LODs.

[This message has been edited by mposis (edited 07-28-2000).]

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Pachy
Pilot
posted 07-28- 07:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pachy   Click Here to Email Pachy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tail, are you sure this wing angle thing is used by the FM engine at all? Wouldn't properly positioned airfoil points (ie blue arrows in OPS) do the job? Just wondering.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 08:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Hi Pachy, I noticed you sort of disappeared from the last time you brought this up see the "problems with AI thread"

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mposis, I've already rotated the rest of the parts in OPS, they don't affect the FM. Just the wing LODs need rotating.

[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 07-28-2000).]

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mposis
Pilot
posted 07-28- 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mposis   Click Here to Email mposis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tail,

I don't understand. If you rotated all the other parts then the wing LODs should be rotated the same way.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Mposis, theres a difference between rotating them in OPS and AC3D.. one way rotates the airfoil the other doesnt.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

See the diagram in the "AI takeoff" thread

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jedi
Pilot
posted 07-28- 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm. Weird. OK, I'll try the new .zip file tonite so I can test it in the sim itself after I change something. Seemed to work OK, but I couldn't fly it with the missing drag airfoil.

As long as I do the rotation in AC3D, forward and aft movement using OPS is OK, right? It's gonna take a LOOOONG time to get the inboard and outboard wings lined up perfectly in AC3D, I fear, although I think I can import the whole model using smd/olc and move parts around and save the whole thing. I'm just leery of doing it

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--jedi--

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Spyder
Pilot
posted 07-28- 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spyder   Click Here to Email Spyder     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is nendo any good for this?
About the only thing that I can draw with. Modelling isn't my forte.

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mposis
Pilot
posted 07-28- 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mposis   Click Here to Email mposis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I did not know OPS rotate was different.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 07-28- 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Thanks jedi! Yes forward/back movement is OK I can readjust the airpts after. Lets wait and see what Pachy's experiment turns up first I wouldn't want you wasting your time...

TS

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jedi
Pilot
posted 07-29- 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, it took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm sending you a flyable, straight-winged beta FW-190A4. I don't know if it flies exactly like it's supposed to, so you may have to tinker with airPTs, but it flies good anyway

I also took the liberty of installing the sliding canopy, since it appears the 190A4 slipped through the cracks there.

I ALSO found what may be a pretty large bug in OPS beta 1.3.1. Any time I saved the plane in OPS, it became UNFLYABLE, i.e. it immediately pitched up, stalled, wallowed, and dropped straight down. If I saved it using the "production" version of OPS, it worked fine. Even a simple thing like moving a gun barrel caused aerodynamic chaos.

I suspect it may actually be OK to rotate the airfoils slightly in OPS, (although I rotated and positioned all the parts using AC3D this time). It may be that saving the plane in OPS Beta was the problem with it not flying right.

Anyway, you should have it in your inbox pretty soon.

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--jedi--

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Pachy
Pilot
posted 07-29- 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pachy   Click Here to Email Pachy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

This thing flies... But clearly lacks lift on the left side. And only the orientation of the airfoil changed, the airPt and inertia boxes are as close to the original as I can put them with OPS. 1.3.0 was used, BTW.

So YES, the airfoil's orientation on the yaw axis is significant.

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