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Author
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Topic: A good read for those who thing the ground handeling for the FM'd planes is too hard.
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Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 02:33 PM
   
Read here ...
http://www.bombs-away.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002432.html IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 04:05 PM
Maybe Earl should try SDOE. Several pilots who have flown SDOE have said the takeoffs in some of our planes are too squirly, including a warbird pilot - I think it was Biggles3's (name right?) father.Besides, in the real world it takes weeks of takeoffs/landings and touch-and-go's in several types of trainers to get to the point where you can take off in a 2,000HP warbird. I don't think anyone wants the takeoff difficulty that realistic. Who has the time to learn? Who has the flight sim with the trainers allowing you to build up to a warbird even if you had the time? IMO if it takes more than dozen takeoff practices to develope the right technique (where you can consistantly takeoff without crashing even if it's not pretty) than the sim is too hard, realistic or not. For what it's worth.  IP: Logged |
li'l bastard
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 04:20 PM
I dunno u guys, but I love the difficult landing\taking off operations in SDOE, our game is the ultimate real simulation, I don't need to remember u the big difference from the others...I think that the skill of a pilot comes out even in difficult situations, like a crosswind takeoff w/ a full bomb load or an emergency landing, not only in shooting down enemy planes... Lots of american pilots completed their tour of duty without meeting an enemy plane, but had to face tons of problems, like bad weather, problems w/ engines etc...
Btw, just my thoughtLi'l out ------------------
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Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 04:31 PM
RE: Warbird pilot observations...Now, I'm not discrediting the opinion of these people ... Point to ponder though is, in evaluating the validity of simulation take-offs to that of the real thing ... ... Do simulations simulate the physical effort and the spacial aquities that one would experiance in a real warbird? I'd have to vote "no". There are physical and visual/spacial things going on that there honestly is no way to simulate. I assure you our trusty joystick of choice do in no way justify the control movements.. the physical application.. nore the feedback that the real jobs did ... NOW before ya gets to taking the torch to me ... There obviously "ARE" a few planes that need ground-handeling adjustments (Zur checks his notes on the 109s).. .. And those will be adressed in future PP updates ... IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 05:31 PM
Thanks for supporting my case Zurawski. I agree, a sim can't possibly recreate all the sensory/visual inputs of a real warbird. Therefore it would be impossible to cope with truly realistic ground handling characteristics in a sim.So the only real value of real warbird pilot experiences (like Earl) to a developer is to emulate general takeoff tendencies which present a challenge to the sim pilot but not making it so difficult that it takes hours and hours to master. Lot's of room for compromises that will never please everyone. Therefore this will always be an endless debate. IP: Logged |
Spyder
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 08:42 PM
Following on that you have to ask why do we simulate flop overs and other things so readily?
My text books describe that it took an almost inhuman effort to yank/pull on the stick so hard in some situations to cause some of these effects, so shouldn't that be reflected in ours?
I don't know if we can simulate speed compression but maybe limiting the elevator/aileron movements could smooth out the ability to just throw things so readily into chaos.
I think the 190 had this treatment? That works well.
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-28- 09:03 PM
Riding the plane right to the edge of stall is something real pilots did and it would be nice to harmonize the controls so full stick will take you there. We have way less throw on our joysticks so I think you are right in that we can't have it match the real plane stick 1 to 1 though. TS
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Mighty
Pilot
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posted 06-29- 01:06 PM
Spyder, there is some modeling of stick forces. I don't know precisely how Eric modeled the leverage, (maybe the air advantage?) but there's code in there that assumes a pilot can exert 60 pounds of force on the elevators and rudder and 30 on the ailerons. If the force required to move the control surface is over those values then we limit the movement.One thing we don't do is move the surface back. Therefore, for example, if you start a split-S and pull the elevator all the way back and the speed builds up such that the force on the stick goes over 60 lbs we go ahead and leave the elevator where it is. If the user lets off the stick and then tries to pull back again then we'll limit him. Does that make sense? IP: Logged |
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