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Author
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Topic: P51 and knife-edge flight
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Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 12:26 AM
   
Does anyone know if the P51d was capable of sustained knife-edge flight? IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 02:56 AM
Heres some info on handling. The flying the mustang articles probably arent relevant as that one was much different than combat ready p51s. I have "airK" values for the real P51D if you need it too. http://firelight.dynip.com/PlaneStats/p51 TS
IP: Logged |
Michael Harrison
General
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posted 06-23- 10:29 AM
The engine doesn't handle that very well in any case. I'm have on my (ever growing) list to take care of that for RC Sim since many many people do that with their model planes. Once that's in, it'll be available to FS as part of the beta/patchIP: Logged |
spin
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 12:08 PM
Ok, I'm showing my ignorance here, but I'm dying to know. Can someone tell me what knife-edge flight is? Just a brief explanation would be sufficient.IP: Logged |
juzz
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 12:36 PM
Rolled 90º and flying level using the fuselage to provide lift and the rudder to pitch the nose up.IP: Logged |
Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 02:49 PM
The reason I asked was because I figured out a way (based on an idea of Sv's) to model sustained knife-edge flight. Sv had added a fuselage airfoil (NACA0010 or 12) to the Albatros and when the area is adjusted up and the chord set to the length of the plane, voila(!) she flys in knife-edge. (I didn't leave it that way, of course) This also helps with snap-rolls, since the fuselage airfoil picks up a nice yawing moment with the rudder input.Tailslide, I would love to see the airK value for the P51d!! I haven't heard whether the model is finished yet from Raider, but this would be great! IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 04:15 PM
Here ya go:A-36 Apache
Mustang 1 0.9079
P-51B Mustang 0.9465
P-51D Mustang 0.9520
P-51H Mustang 0.8754
P-82 Twin Mustang 0.9494 Thats interesting news about the fuselage airfoil! I thought this effect was also supposed to be simulated by the CYL airfoil, was it not working for you? Was it not providing enough lift or drag? TS IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 05:10 PM
Prop Reduction Gear: 2.38IP: Logged |
Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 10:23 PM
To be honest, I haven't tried this on the CYL airfoil. These numbers for airK are higher than I would have expected. Thanks a bunch Tail, you are a wonderful source!!BTW, the foil is added to the plane, not replacing the CYL. Take a look at the AlbatrosDva.sm and you'll see. IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 10:35 PM
Pang, the p51 has some of the highest airK numbers of any plane in the list. The Yak was only 0.76 something
Say, since the airfoils are only 2d could our cylinder airfoil only be a flat plane? Up and down but no effect when turned on its side? TS IP: Logged |
Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-23- 11:00 PM
Actually I think it's only side to side. The build 76 lift vectors are only showing side to side, I think.IP: Logged |
Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-24- 03:17 AM
Nope, I checked - you were right. It's up and down. The airfoil that Sv added is side to side.IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-24- 03:53 AM
HEY ! All we have to do may be to add a another cylinder airfoil and rotate it 90 degrees !
IP: Logged |
Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-24- 09:15 PM
But the CYL airfoil doesn't act a whole lot like an airfoil. It does model all the aerodynamic forces, but much differently than a foil like the NACA0012. For example, the lift curve extends all the way up to 55 degrees AoA. Drag and moment are more conventional, looks like.IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-24- 11:10 PM
CYL is supposed to be the airfoil for a cylindrical shape.. at what AoA does a fuselage no longer provide lift?
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-25- 06:01 AM
I just did some experimenting with the latest FSBeta.. I'm seeing lift lines moving both side to side and up and down depending on yaw/pitch so I don't think its in one axis only. I tried adding another CYL airfoil rotated 90 degrees but the lift lines were exactly the same for the normal and non-rotated airfoils. Ah well. The fuselage is definitely providing a good amount of lift but the aircraft is unable to keep its nose yawed enough to take advantage of it in knife edge flight. TS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 06-25-2000).] IP: Logged |
Raider
Pilot
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posted 06-25- 07:37 AM
I have tried adding a Vstab, with no rudder. This has an airfoil "NACA0010" just like the tail. You can make the chord the size of the body. It will definatly affect the sideslip, You can adjust the size and position to get more reasistic results. ------------------
Raider 33rd~GS
Raiders Site
IP: Logged |
Razor747
Pilot
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posted 06-25- 09:51 AM
The fuselage does not always provide lift when you are doing a knife edge. The only thing holding the plane up is the power of the engine and the rudder. I have been doing knife edges with my R/C planes and their fuselage is just a round pipe. I can take pictures of it and make it into a AVI if it will help explain what I am describing. IP: Logged |
Pang
Pilot
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posted 06-25- 01:57 PM
Raider,
That's essentially what I'm talking about, just turning the whole fuselage into a vstab without any controls. If you pay attention to the airPt, chord, and area, it really adds realism to the slipping action. I'm tweaking this with the Sopwith Camel right now, and it exists in the AlbatrosDva as well, but since that is more of a cylindrical shape, it's not as pronounced.*why don't we move this over to the tech talk board for further discussion. [This message has been edited by Pang (edited 06-25-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-25- 03:04 PM
Razor, interested in your feedback since you've actually flown this on your RC plane please check tech section..IP: Logged |
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