Any Ideas on the HeloJet Im working on?

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Author	Topic: Any Ideas on the HeloJet Im working on?
Sebulba unregistered	posted 05-23- 08:55 PM Well, its not a HeloJet by name, its really called a Focke Wulf Triebflugel. It never flew, but it was tested in a wind tunnel. Check it out. http://visi.net/~djohnson/fw/fwtrieb.html Ok, now on to the business. How would I go about having the blades spin like this. My idea is to have the three engines a child of the wings, angle the engines. But to have the whole center spin, would I have to make a DOF? Here is a AC3D pic to help. Oh, and Nat, for some strange reason, when I tried importing my files onto Sv's Albatros it werked fine. Anywho, waddaya think? IP: Logged
ArgonV JAG	posted 05-23- 09:09 PM I have no idea how this would work... but you are the man!!!!!!! Ive seen and read about this before and Ive wondered if this would ever be put into the game. I hope you get this to work. IP: Logged
Nat JAG	posted 05-23- 09:15 PM Seb, I've been having wierd problems with all versions of OPS the last 2 days, even just changing an obHits value has been kicking it... it's beyond me.. LOL But that Babe above.. damn that looks like fun.. heheh IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Cadet	posted 05-23- 11:30 PM What I would do Seb, is simply make that entire 3 jet-engined prop looking thing your propeller, and have the engine in the center. Then simply have that entire thing spin. As long as you keep the obPoints unchanged (like a normal prop) it'll work although it'd look silly on the ground. In the air it'd be darned interesting to see though IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-24- 12:03 AM Spanky here... I agree with Pete on this one man. It seems like the only way, I don't think OP would like an engine mounted on the end of a prop. Just for people that havn't seen this before here is some good CGs. [This message has been edited by Spanky the Mad Dog (edited 05-24-2000).] IP: Logged
ArgonV JAG	posted 05-24- 12:14 AM Pete, why would it look silly on the ground? As I see it, that whole engine-prop would just turn and there would be a hidden jet engine in the middle. Although, this thing was supposed to take off vertical, so it better be a pretty darn powerful jet engine. BTW... how would this thing land in SDOE? Is it possible to land vertically? Better yet, I think its possible to take off vertically but how would one go about switching from vertical to level back to vertical flight? And... is it possible to start on the runway with your nose pointing up????? IP: Logged
ArgonV JAG	posted 05-24- 12:29 AM Back to the vertical thingy.... correct me if im wrong but I think the blades tilt and it used booster rockets to start. Do booster rockets exist, can they be modeled? Enable for this thing to work the jet engines on the prop would actually have to be jet engines and not just look like em. So that scratches the whole "fake" engine in the middle thing. Now I think it would be possible to make the blades tilt... I dont see why not (anyone?) but as for putting jet engines on a prop... hmmmm... this will either have to be "fudged" to get the effect or someone will have to become GOD. Maybe that HUGE prop doesnt need to be a REAL prop. If I remember the history correct, It wasnt supposed to really have a motor to itself. The jet engines would push the prop so to speak and the prop turning would itself produce lift aswell. Is there away to have engines turning something and not produce too much torque? Also... is there a way to model the lift produced by the turning prop with out making it an actuall prop? These questions must be answered. [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 05-24-2000).] IP: Logged
slk unregistered	posted 05-24- 01:12 AM You fly that Son-Of-A-Bitch, I have enough problems with the 190a... Psi IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-24- 01:39 AM Spanky here.. Why a jet engine ArgonV? Just put an engine in the body of the sucker, and don't even bother with making the jet engines on the ends of the props real. I don't think you can do it with openplane right now. I think as long as you give the prop itself a low wieght you can keep down the torque. I think the hardest part is keeping the body from turning too. I really don't see how they were goign to do that with the real thing? At high speed when the rudders are effective i think it woould work but at low take off and landing speed, boy that would be hairy. BTW if your wondernig if you can do vertical take off and landing just look at the huey. Transistion isn't the hard part. To land just pull back to 90 and reduce your throttle to just a tad less then hover. controlling it though wouldn't be easy how effective are those rudders going backwards at 3 MPH? IP: Logged
biggels3 Pilot	posted 05-24- 02:13 AM man that thing would go i cant wait to see it for real(in fs i mean) amagine a dog fight in that. it would be frantic. you could even have an online mission where that all start from a carrier take off screem off into the distance shoot down the baddies and come home. someone could even disign a bomber one that is 10 or 15 times bigger. sorry i was skipping ahead just thinking of the possabilaties. (did the americans do somthing like this after the war it was called the lockheed xfv-1 and it had a prop at the top ovthe fuselage. ------------------ scramble!scramble!scramble! "i have to go biggels3 out" IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 02:32 AM Why not have three wings sticking out each one composed of several sections so it "twists". Then stick a jet engine on the end of each. TS IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 02:35 AM .. and have their parent the round circular bit in the middle with a DOF so it spins around the center. IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 02:37 AM The tricky bit would be getting the prop on the back to counter the fuselage rotation.. it would probably only be stable at certain speeds since they'd both be tied to the same throttle setting. Or is that a prop on the back? If not how did they keep the fuselage from spinning around? [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 05-24-2000).] IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-24- 02:59 AM Spanky here... Yeah exactly. There is only the 4 rudders to keep it from spinning. Thats not another prop at the bottom. Its the cover for main center wheel that bears most of the wieght. Same with those little ones on the small wheels, they fold back over the wheels for less drag. Check out the site and the cutaway and then look closer at the bottom pic and you can see the wheel I would think for take off you would have to lock the wheels to counter torque. But after you had some lift they wouldn't do much. so you better hope you can get some speed quickly for directional stability I guess. [This message has been edited by Spanky the Mad Dog (edited 05-24-2000).] IP: Logged
ReaperMan Pilot	posted 05-24- 08:10 AM KICKASS, Sebulba! Now we can find out if this thing would actually fly. Just put wheels on the bottom and make sure they're balanced, then it should sit vertical on the runway. Some of the stuff the Germans had on their drawing boards was really out of this world. ------------------ -=TheReaper=- IP: Logged
ArgonV JAG	posted 05-24- 10:53 AM Sebulba, When you get the Treibflugel in SDOE, I'll be more than happy to do tests and such for you. Spanky, is there a way to make a jet engine spin? To counter the effects of the prop torque? or have an invisible prop in the rear counter rotating? [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 05-24-2000).] IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 11:18 AM "At the end of each wing was a Pabst ramjet, Since ramjets do not operate at slow speeds, either the rotor had to be driven by a fuselage mounted takeoff-booster or small Walter rocket engines could have been fitted to each ramjet pod. " Nutty.. there wouldn't be anything to keep the fuselage from spinning like a top at low speeds.. [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 05-24-2000).] IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-24- 11:50 AM Spanky here... Actually tail, if theres no engine mounted to the rest of the plane. Why would the plane want to spin? There would be a HUGE bearing race that the whole prop spins on, going around the fuse. So besides the drag of the bearings why would the fuse want to spin? Of course it will with us since we would probly have to use a regular engine to spin that. heres one for ya. how do you send your speed settings to the ram jets? some huge brushes like in an electric motor? I guess all the fuel is stored in the prop too. IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 11:54 AM If bearings were frictionless then yeah there wouldn't be a problem.. Why can't it be modelled like the real thing? See my post above. TS IP: Logged
charmstar Pilot	posted 05-24- 12:34 PM I agree with TS: you should try to model it like the real thing. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you could get it to work correctly. People tend to underestimate the power of OpenPlane sometimes. charm IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 12:40 PM I think DOF's in openplane ARE frictionless so this might just work.. IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-24- 12:42 PM Spanky here.. Well give it a shot but for some reason i can see it running into complications. I'm not sure what it will be but i can see it. Well at least we can do frictionless bearings here IP: Logged
Heuschrecke Cadet	posted 05-24- 02:33 PM Kick ass....I was hopin to see the weird and wonderful concept planes of the Luftwaffe!!! IP: Logged
Sebulba unregistered	posted 05-24- 04:02 PM Does anyone have any info on the rocket boosters? IP: Logged
Sebulba unregistered	posted 05-24- 05:51 PM Another Question, do you have to have to have a propfast or slow model? IP: Logged
ArgonV JAG	posted 05-24- 07:28 PM ok, by the looks of the skematics, the fuel is stored in the fuse Spanky. The rocket boosters... well I doubt the rocket boosters were on the Ramjets themselves so there would have to be a small booster motar to start the prop from inside. Once the prop was spinnig fast enough the Ramjet engines were probably fired up and the prop booster would run out of fuel. The Ramjet engines them selves turned the prop in flight. No motar powered the prop. If the Ramjet engines produced enough power to turn the prop fast enough, the plane would take off cause the prop would produce enough lift. Now what I dont get is since Ramjets dont operate at low speeds, how would you land? There would have to be another motar inside to turn the prop. Unless the Ramjets were not going slow enough during landing to not operate. Sebulba, just "fudge" the whole engine part to get it to work and dont tell anybody. Thats my opinion. No one could TRUELY model this whole engine bit to what was supposed to be in real life. IP: Logged
Sebulba unregistered	posted 05-24- 08:15 PM What I really need to find out is how to is to get this bird on her tail. IP: Logged
Jerry Pilot	posted 05-24- 08:25 PM Heuschrecke, go here if you haven't already: http://greenforce.net/fs/fs.htm IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 05-24- 09:31 PM If the wings twist then once the blades are up to speed the pitch of them can be changed so they don't provide much lift but still keep spinning fast. TS IP: Logged
Army puke SFC Pilot	posted 05-25- 04:13 AM An engineering nightmare.... Wonder what would happen if the German prototype loses one of the blades... Won't be a survivable aircraft in prolonged operational conditions in real life, if u ask me. IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-25- 07:15 AM Spanky here... Yeah it is an engineering nightmare. Still cool though. How would they pass the fuel from the fuse to the spinning wings? I guess thats some crazy engineering too. About starting it facing up. Whats the problem? just build it that way and it will sit that way in the game. The game doesn't know what way is the top of an airplane. again i refer to the huey. IP: Logged
Stark Pilot	posted 05-25- 03:33 PM Actually, the fuel wouldnt be difficult to do at all. You'd put 3 tanks in the fuselage section that spins, one at the root of each wing. Since it would use a rocket booster to start you dont need a fuel pump as centrifugal force will handle that for you. As long as the wings are spinning the fuel will flow to the motors. For awhile (early 70's I think) you could get gyrocopter kits that used the rocket at the tip of blade method to generate more lift for short intervals...kinda like a JATO system but for gyrocopters. -Stark [This message has been edited by Stark (edited 05-25-2000).] IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 05-25- 04:23 PM Spanky here... Yep You can still get that kit in the back of popular mechanics Very true about the fuel. IP: Logged
biggels3 Pilot	posted 05-26- 11:18 AM hi when you get that cool plane in operation i would be willing to have a go testing it. gooooooooooooooooooood work just hope it would work. ------------------ scramble!scramble!scramble! "i have to go biggels3 out" IP: Logged
ArgonV JAG	posted 08-15- 02:50 PM What ever happened to this? IP: Logged
Aladar Pilot	posted 08-15- 03:24 PM BIZZzzzzz........ KABOOM!!!!!! Crashed and burned. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Cadet	posted 08-15- 06:42 PM Sebulba, if you've given up on it send it to me! I'll make it work in some way/shape/form. I was just flying around my Harrier earlier today and got it vertical and actually would have landed the thing tail first (if I had landing gear on the tail)! It was very cool, so I'm sure it can be done. I still like my center prop idea the best as I think it's the easiest. Let me know, or just send via email to hawker@jackedin.com [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 08-15-2000).] IP: Logged
Biggles3 Pilot	posted 01-07- 02:46 PM , IP: Logged
Biggles3 Pilot	posted 01-07- 02:58 PM well what did happen to this cool [lane and can it be started again cos i think it would be a great feet to get it to fly in fs. ------------------ WHATCH YOU TAIL;) IP: Logged
Biggles3 Pilot	posted 01-07- 04:02 PM . IP: Logged

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