posted 05-10- 01:15 AM               

So boys whats up?

Everything besides some ww1 PP and some playing around. I havn't heard anything about the next plane pack?

Is there a chance that some of the contest planes are going to get rolled into it?

I know that most people just want it to be planes that are finished (whatever that is)

But we never use them online much cause some people don't have them.

I think online could be alot funner flying some yaks and he162s

Can we roll them in with the light Nations so they all appeer in the right countrys?

I would be fine with pp5.4 just being like 5.3b but with any new stuff like that p51 work and tails yak stuff and panzer and roadtoads 162 and 229 work.

Just to get all the planes in one pack.

RIght now if you start out in SDOE you have to load 5.3 the 5.3 patch and the contest pack and the contest pack patch.

Thats insane. And its not like new revisions of these planes are coming out every day.

posted 05-10- 02:34 AM               

Even better.

The more changes and updates i guess the more this looks better.

I would be happy to have all the planes in one pack with no patches but some people need for there to be alot of changes before they want to make a new download.

So theres changes to:

the yak
the zero
the p51
the he162
the go229
i16?
any others?

posted 05-10- 03:26 AM               

I16? - Hmm, I got no time for FM tests now and I´m no FM guru too. I´d say the I16V2 is good. I received no mails or post with tips or test results for the I16Version2 so I don´t know what and how to fix.

posted 05-10- 03:47 AM               

Laika- the packs should be in par files for 2 reasons.

#1. It saves room since its a compressed format

#2. It loads faster then if it's just placed in a folder.

About packing them according to nations. I don't think thats a good idea cause then you will have to start making sure everyone has all the nations.

Instead of asking online "do you have pp5.3b?"

You would be asking, "do you have Britain, US, Japan, Russia, Germany?"

That would be crazy

The reason I ask for another plane pack soon is so no one will be left out of games online cause they don't have the latest planes. And since all the revisions have calmed down. I figured it was about time to put it all in one.

I know some people will say that a plane without the proper FM shouldn't be in it. but way make it harder for people. Just to uphold some standard? As long as there all in there you have the choice if you want to use them or not.

posted 05-10- 04:01 AM               

It seems to me that as an interim, this would be a logical and good idea, if there are any changes to the a/c in the Contest Pack, then it's a quick, small and painless SM addition to the next PP instead of the full blown thing which most of us have already anyway.

posted 05-10- 05:20 AM               

Actually nat I thought in a way it was.

But the reason I want to put it together with the plane pack is cause it will be ONE download for begginers.

And for the old timers. Well they can get the plane pack they are used too. Except with all the planes so they don't have to search or download the contest pack.

I really don't see the problem, And yes i'm only on 56k.

posted 05-10- 07:47 AM               

The P47 and the FW190D have been heavily tweaked and tested (closely match "all" performance specs) & have fuel-tanks properly positioned and damagable ...

... If I can tear myself away from the F86e I'm working on ... I "may" also have all 109s equally tweaked.

posted 05-10- 08:04 AM               

Great stuff zur.

I'm not sure what I would rather you do. Finish the F86 or tweak the 109s.

Since the 109 is one of my fav planes but the 86 is one of them too

I'm goign to have to go with tweaking the 109s.

Cause once you do them your done with them for awhlie.

If you just get the 86 in the air you could end up tuning it FOREVER. LOL.

Thats just my opinion though.

posted 05-10- 09:02 AM               

There IS a contest plane pack "revision" in the works. I believe it's currently undergoing some beta testing to make sure the parfiles work right, nothing CTD's, etc etc. I'm not sure which of the contest planes in the new pack have been upgraded, but the Corsairs (all of em this time, since we're not voting any more) have new versions in there, and I believe the P-47 will also be in there, if the new version is ready to be included. I believe all the contest planes will be included, but I can't speak for planes like the He-162 or Ju-188.

It may be time to consider "splitting" the plane packs up into manageable "bites." It's really too much to expect one group of 5 or 6 guys to keep 50 planes updated. Along with that, you have different guys familiar with the development of different planes. I suggest that we now have 3 logical plane packs: the "original" pack that turned into 5.3, the WW I pack, and the "contest planes," (not including the 109s which were in 5.3).

I'd also suggest it's perhaps more important that everyone has the SAME planes than it is for the planes themselves to have completely "accurate" flight models for online play. If you go with the two WW2 plane pack option, you have a group of planes with essentially the same flight model refinement technique used, and a second group where the flight models may still be "in progress," but which are at least "standard" planes within their own plane pack. "Mixing" planes from the two packs would be possible, with the understanding that yes, the F4U-1 might outperform the FW-190 Dora in this mission, and that might even HELP the development of the flight models along a bit, while in the meantime at least everyone got to fly the mission because everyone had "plane pack" planes.

Well, starting to ramble a bit here, but you get the idea. At any rate, I think you'll see an updated contest plane pack soon, and at least some of the planes in it have some notable upgrades to them.

posted 05-10- 10:26 AM               

Well ... Truth be told, I still have a way to go with the F86. As with most things I do ... I like to do it "right" the first time ... so no rush-job on this fella!

I've already "started" in on the 109s ... they basicly need to be "finished" now. So they being included is a good possibility.

posted 05-10- 11:02 AM               

Well maybe jedi but remember thats 2 times for a new person to get confused.

I don't think we should keep calling the contest pack the contest pack.

I'm not sure what it should be called but that name is just wacky.

Maybe plane pack 2 or 2nd edition LOL.

Zur, I got some specs on taht sucker if you want them

like fuel capacity and rough placement of the tanks
rounds per gun and such

I'm very interested in a CF86 after you make that, just for the fun of it we need the canadain version.

posted 05-10- 11:25 AM               

Oh cripes YES!

ANY specs you can give regarding the F86e would be EXTREMELY helpful! ...

I'm actually kinda suprised how "little" specific data there IS for the F86's!

Oh and "yes" I planed on doing a CF86 in honor of Tailslide, Kopper and all you Canadians!

posted 05-10- 12:06 PM            

If we download a pack of zipped but separate planes we are bound to begin running into online conflicts as people download non-standard offline updates,play with them on their own and other such events. The par file helps to ensure no-one has a different plane and if a conflict arises online the conflicting player can rename his aircraft directory and eliminate conflicts quickly.

The new installer program that's been used lately is really helpful.

As the WWI planes are scheduled to arrive in a separate pack soon, we don't need to include these in a new plane pack. However I don't believe there are any planes that were in the contest that shouldn't be in the next pack (if their creators are agreeable to including them). I would also like it if Panzer and Roadtoad would allow their updated Go229 and Ho162 to be included in the online plane pack.

That said it will be a big pack and may create a bit of fuss from a download perspective.

A couple of things to think about for constructing the pack (I've said this before so ...). As we have 3 par file numbers we seem to work with I believe we could split the pack up so that frequently updated components / planes / files (such as sm files) are packaged in smaller par files while less frequently updated files are in a different par file (such as ground objects, tif files, msn files, less attended planes, etc).

The less frequently updated par file could have a lower number, allowing the more frequently updated par file to be smaller and packaged separately (smaller downloads). The numbering system would follow something like this: PP 6 (big par less updated). 1 (smaller par more frequent updates). a (emergency parfile for fixes)

posted 05-10- 12:24 PM               

Ok spin your right I thought for sure they compressed a bit.

That method sounds good to me.

posted 05-10- 02:01 PM               

I'm already using it online but it causes some strange things to happen when everyone doesn't have the same ground object.

posted 05-10- 03:40 PM               

The Ju 188 is definitly not ready for a plane-pack. It still lacks a more realistic flight-model, and the cockpit is just a smart guess derived from a cockpit-mock-up of the Ju 88B. I am waiting for a reference-book on the Ju 188 I have ordered.

The Ju 88G-1 is waiting for some minor touches, and the FM is still that of Lector's G-7 (I'll have to check if it's OK for the G-1, too).

The same goes for the Ju 88C, plus I want to make the gunpod detachable.

posted 05-11- 02:44 AM               

Well who is the lead for 5.4?

Speak up!!

posted 05-11- 09:07 AM               

As soon as we here something we will let everyone know.

posted 05-11- 09:40 AM               

Yeah I really would like to see that damage thing happen.

I thought he had alot of the #s and just had to plug them in?

posted 05-11- 11:38 AM               

We need to have a source code manager that can merge changes from several places at once into a common place. The other problem is to ensure we have the most up-to-date changes and until we have a source code merger no one can make changes.

Any ideas?

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 05-11- 05:21 PM               

I would think you'd either need to give the guys working on the plane a "guide" on how to install the damage features, or get them to stop working long enough to allow you to install them and that way when they actually are "finished" by the builder, they include the standard features already.

The only other thing I can think of is to have a "project manager" for each plane who you can at least confer with on implementing this.

posted 05-11- 07:25 PM               

This will try to standardize this issue first. Someone??? was suppose to put together something??? on the standard type damage things.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 05-12- 01:59 PM               

Do this for each plane to get all planes accurate relative to each other.

Tier Two: Make all obHits values to be higher than what you really want, by say 2x. Then add obProb statements at specified values that will work out to causing any part to "die" when it gets to onDmg 5 on average. For instance, the fuselage might have onDmg 1 obProb of 5% that it explodes, 5% that landing gear is jammed, 90% nothing happens. by the time you get to onDmg 8 though, it would be more like 40% explodes, 20% pilot killed, etc.

Doing damage this way would still allow a FW to take 3x more hits than a lanc before going down, but only if it was a lucky plane :-) And on the other hand, one lucky round could bring the plane down.

I have been working on the DM of the Fokker DVIII, and have found it nice to have these obProb statements, because of the unpredictability it adds.

posted 05-12- 03:15 PM               

TS

posted 05-12- 03:52 PM               

Did you also know that only every second hit on a plane actually counts as a hit???

Once I set up my super indestructable Lanc I can blame it on the online bug, eh????

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 05-12- 04:17 PM               

If you've ever played in a game with a bunch of mossies or spit1a with their trigger held down just imagine if there was twice as many bullets

TS

------------------
Patch It!

TS Aircombat

posted 05-13- 01:32 PM               

I've just been offline for a while I move to another county, I'm an experienced downloader of the great flying machines that have been produced in planepacks 5.3a and before ,,

I've just got, 5.3b after seeing that was the one that i missed while offline. it reads on all websites ONLINE STANDARD.. and jumped online only to find everyone talking about having the new contest pack,17mb ,,people are using it Doh,,online,, then I read that I need the Nations pack to run,,

Point is ...I'm getting confused,, then I read this and thought of all the NEW PILOTS we are picking up, Even I'm finding it tricky at the moment,, I don't know what to download to get Online ....

NEW PLANEPACK WITH ALL FLYABLE PLANES AND VEHICLES! 50mb I don't care ,,just one d/l and thats easy to tell a Newbie Pilot

posted 05-13- 09:03 PM               

EXACTLY...

Plus you can always use getright and just download in little bites if ya want to.

posted 05-16- 12:33 PM               

Contest Pack 1.1 - This week.
This will supliment PP5.3b and bring all WWII planes up to the latest versions.

WWI Pack - End of May
This will contain all the WWI planes plus some extra special goodness from the WWI Guys.