posted 03-28- 10:36 AM            

Hey, I can understand fully why patches haven't been released for SDOE. Actually, i suggest you follow Mighty/Chad's lead and have fun and fly some 2 vs. 2 ACM at the April 8th tourney with us!

Anyway, for the serious question, one for which I really don't know the real answer, and I'm sure you can answer for me.

What's the reason for not "completing and enhancing" SDOE, and selling the new program over the network? As I understand, your company still owns the "engine", right? Why not use the talent out here to build a new sim around that engine, and get it right this time? If Eric Parker was not the creative and motivational genius behind the past work of your company, why can't you guys do this now?

If you have been reading USENET, etc., you'll see that while Falcon 4 and Jane's F/A-18 are becoming "established standards" for jet sims, the WWII market is still pretty wide open. None of the sims sold ~ 1 - 1.5 years ago has satisfied everyone. There's a lot of development going on - look at Ace's High and WWII Online (both arena sims). There's a large enough crowd out there that I think would warrant a superior version of SDOE. You could advertize and sell over the network.

Now, you might say that the people you have working on this effort is "too small", and it's too big a job.

But consider the assets that you have here, as long as you actually use them:

1) You have an engine that's good but not great. You have heard probably 10 times over what changes need to be made.

2) You have a huge crew of people that you could "hire". Decide what the changes are that need to be made, and "hire" people at some small fraction of the profit made on the sales. Therefore - no direct pay, just royalties. Heck, people have been working on this sim for a year for free! (The only problem I see here would be that many people have burned out and left already - but since many of them really love SDOE, I'm sure they would come back).

3) Give these people tools! Heck, I was so motivated 8 months ago to get the SDOE planes to fly well and actually be challenging to command in a dogfight - to the level of Ace's High, and better. I know others want to do the same. Look at how much work has gone into the creation of planes with "stone knives and bearskins" for tools. Isn't it a shame not to tap these resources in an *organized* way, and perhaps make a profit?

It's pretty clear that the SDOE community is talented and motivated. I think the motivation peaked a while ago, but there's still life here. Use it now, or I think it will evaporate for good.

Actually, this post really should be addressed at all the "Inertia" folk. (Actually, how about a name change from "Inertia", to something less sendentary, like "Dynamic systems" )

Seriously, as you have seen and heard, flight sims have a "threshold" of greatness. If the sim fails on any of these essentials, it's not going to be the best. SDOE failed in the flight model department, and somewhat in the online damage model department. If you got these aspects right, you'd have a much greater following of the flight sim community.

If you don't do this, SDOE is going to fade away. Think of all the time and effort that went into creating it - not just your own, but all the people here that have created planes, etc.

I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say that I look at this sim, fly this sim, and constantly think over and over again - "This sim is one step short of being great!"

I personally think it's a waste and a damn shame that companies have to keep "reinventing the wheel" when it comes to building "yet another WWII sim". Why don't companies just build on superior engines that already exist?

Finally, Michael, you can't tell me that you are going to make more money on an R/C model sim, than you could make on a WWII sim that addresses the problems that you have heard time and time again regarding SDOE! I mean, how much would I pay to have a "new SDOE" with the following features:

- larger map
- flight model on par with Ace's High
- no online damage bug
- no unlimited bomb bug
- no ground unit bug
- terrain and clouds that block icons
- alterations that compensate for monitor resolution and allow better dogfights and A/G attack without icons
- a padlock that breaks lock after a few seconds when the target is hidden, and that has a limited range of head travel. (Heck, just buy the Falcon 4 padlock system off the rack )
- improved network code / interface to better support 16+ online in flight, and say 50 in a chat room pre and postflight
- more meaningful and researched missions
(heck, I'd love to do that part alone!)
- etc. etc, - you've heard them all 100 times.

While I don't expect that Inertia is going to tap these resources and make this happen, can I ask you just one thing? Please give me a good, solid reason why you are *not* going to do this? This way, when I look at SDOE and think of how bittersweet it is, at least I'll be satisfied that it really could have never been any better, and just accept that, instead of thinking that it's like 95% of the way there, it was actually justified to be left on the roadside.

=Thanks, M.

posted 03-28- 11:47 AM               

Fighter Squadron has, in a small way, flourished despite the fact that it had and has some severe problems. It kind of makes you wonder what would happen if it didn't have those problems.

posted 03-28- 02:34 PM               

They'd have Gladly tossed in their $60 bucks,
heck they pay that in no time in online fee's.

But, SDoE came a few bugs short of getting their $$.

Just a few Improvements and Fixes could still
Reel in their Money, along with many others.

posted 03-28- 02:40 PM               

Hedgehog. I'm all for a new sim. Its been anounced a couple times that Inertia and team are planing on releasing a Pacific ww2 sim based on the openplane engine. Its probly being worked on in the background. And every addition, optomization, tweak and such that goes into the RC sim will go into that sim also.

I can tell you why they are doing the RC sim first. BACKING. Someone or company contracted Inertia to make a RC plane sim based on the engine used for SDOE. They are either helping with development costs or are paying Intertia when it is done.

Mighty and chad are working on new UI and stuff right now. That can all be applied to the next sims they make.

MH has stated that they are considering doing other RC sims as add ons in the future. I think its a great idea to switch off. RC,ww2, RC helis, korea, RCcars, ww1. Keeps ya fresh and every time they add something to the rc games like helicopters or true ground objects in the car sim they have added those properties to there Flight sim engine.

I know some of you guys arn't into the rc sim stuff. You just want your ww2 stuff. But I think somthing like this keeps the creative juices flowing.

Put it another way in your job. If you do the same thing all year you will get bored. I'm a cabinet maker but I plan on doing other things. High quality decks (imagine a cabinet maker, making your deck hehe.) Computer work is another feild i'm interested in. It keeps you motivated and it seems there is always ideas that can be transfered.

I'm going to love flying the RC planes.

BTW I still think there should be a patch. I really don't see whats so hard about it. Specialy when they have been 1 weekend away from releasing it and then it gets shelved.

I'm not sure I would buy the RC sim or any other intertia product until there was at least an attempt at this patch.

I'm not saying I didn't get my moneys worth. I have for sure. But not from intertias work. It was from the rest of you guys making other add ons for it.

I also don't think any of the guys who DON'T like SDOE right now are going to buy another Inertia sim. Its just not going to happen unless there is a patch. and we can convince some of the so called journalists that SDOE can be a good game with the patches and the plane packs.

We need to get some of the reviewers that people trust to say. "yeah this sim was a joke at first. Now with the communities help Intertia has fixed it"

Any way that was a monster. hehe
I just woke up so i kinda rambled LOL

posted 03-28- 04:25 PM               

The core of the reason for doing an RC sim first is essentially what Spanky said.
Money. We lack the funds to commit to a full sim at this time, most of the publishers who don't already have a sim team aren't interested in getting into this already crowded market and Ripmax is paying us to do RCSim.

In fact, they've been after us for a number of years to do a RC Sim, and it's only now that we've been able to do it.

posted 03-28- 04:56 PM               

I see myself and others fighting with mismatches, improper airfoil data, and other problems that seem to be a result of the sim diverging from a standard. We also see posts by newbies eager to try the evolved sim out, but lost in the updates and add-on's.

Could a new "install" or, for lack of a better word, "Patch" be created that had the proper standard to date for all the new planes, and options to add extras such as detail cockpits and extra sounds (like Gunjam or Meatwater's excellent packs)?

If we did this, we could make the game more approchable to newbies, and establish a ground point on airfoils and the like. And, it would make life easier on goofs like me who ar about to try a third time to install everything again to try and clean up a mess of planes, folders, and mismatches.

posted 03-28- 06:20 PM            

I'm curious about the RC simulation. Will the player be able to actual sit in the cockpit and fly? or is this more or less and external view simulation? I assume it will be 100% OpenPlane compatible.....will we be able to fly our SDOE creations in this new game? And what about the new game's terrian. Would it be possible to extract the terrian sm from the new game and place it in SDOE?

posted 03-28- 06:22 PM               

See sometimes I'm right I forgot to mention that little tidbit of needing someone to fund a ww2 sim.

Goth, I totally agree with you. One huge patcht that installs all the regular stuff people use would rock. But everyone is so afraid of huge DLs that why it doesn't happen. Plus i'm not sure of the legalities of putting the 1.5 patch in with the rest of the stuff.

posted 03-28- 07:14 PM               

Its fully openplane compatible i'm pretty sure. Although I could see some changes being needed to swap planes and terrains.

posted 03-29- 12:12 AM               

TS

------------------
TS Aircombat

posted 03-29- 12:19 AM               

Yeah exactly.

They do the RC sim. They take anything they added and apply it to the next ww2 sim

THen they do lets say RC cars. They would ahve already made some additions to the ww2 sim for ground movement (i hope) but they would have WAY more they could add after they did this.

Then lets say a RC boat sim. Well then they must have much more realistic water and ships. That can be applied to the ww2 sims.

It goes on and on.

I personally think Intertia should make addons/upgrades for SDOE and RC/sim.

Not making a whole new game but a new theater and upgrade the engine. every 6-10 months. I think that would rock.

posted 03-29- 07:01 AM               

I'd love to join the tourney, but I'll be out of town next week through the 8th.

"What's the reason for not "completing and enhancing" SDOE..."

It boils down to: time, money and people.

We have a limited amount of each. The SOS initiative is intended to open up the engine to more modifications by the community, unfortunately it's taking quite a while to move the NDA through the lawyers.

1) Yes indeed. I have collected quite a list of features and enhancements from the community.
2)3) That's what SOS is intended to do. Open up the source to a small group of people so they can do what we don't have the time/money/people to do.

"Finally, Michael, you can't tell me that you are going to make more money on an R/C model sim..."

Actually I can. As I've mentioned elsewhere numerous times, we have made exactly $0.00 on FS. We get no royalties whatsoever, and as Activision owns the name, we can't even use that on our next WWII sim.
It takes capital to keep a company going and build a product. At the moment we can't commit to the WWII sim (although we have a design in progress) because of that fact. The publishers realize they can make substantially more money for less work by doing something lame like Deer Hunter which makes pitching a flight sim difficult to say the least.

As far as why SOS and such don't happen now, is that while I have the title of Director, I don't *own* the source code. Inertia is not my company and I currently have no controlling interest in it or ownership of the engine. I can't just "release the code" without putting my ass in a legal sling.

Dan, et al:

posted 03-29- 09:20 AM               

Keep pushing SOS Michael...

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 03-29- 04:01 PM               

Yea, I guess Activision's project to rip off Siggi worked. It took careful planning and flawless execution, but they managed to "screw" you and keep you from "fixing it." And as an added bonus they almost have given you a "**** STROKE."

I only hope the last one comes to fruition so I don't have to read any of these life-sucking posts.

Can we move this to flame wars now? We need a good one...

-Sv

posted 03-29- 06:19 PM               

What part of "I love SDOE" don't you understand?

Trying ot convince me that I don't really like it is not going to be an easy aurgument.

Maybe I should try to convince you how much you love it, hmmmmmmm...

By the way, your profanity does not bother me in the least bit.

Also I have been waiting for SDOE/OpenPlane years before it came out, back when I used to fly A-10 Cuba /Attack all of the time. I was an original member of Pete's forum. I waited, read every article, and I got exactly what I wanted to get, a great sim with an awesome open architecture.

I wish I could say that I am sorry that I like it, but I'm not. I just think it kicks ass.

posted 03-29- 06:22 PM               

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posted 03-29- 06:45 PM               

On the box it claims "Ultra Realistic World War Two Flight Simulator"
That is a marketing claim that is in no way fulfilled by the sim we have. Weak FM's, lack of engine overheat etc etc. That, in anybody's language, is fraudulent advertizing.

An online damage bug shipped with the game. activision are legally obliged to fix that bug but have refused to do so. Even worse, they refuse to allow anyone else to fix it; that is taking the royal piss. So greedy and coniving they are that they refuse to release the code because of the tiny chance they may lose a few bucks somewhere down the road.

Yes Sv, SDoE is a beautiful sim, but it is bugged. It cannot be used for serious online play for a host of reasons, as anyone here will tell you. The guys here who have been working their guts out creating new planes, objects, terrain etc have done so in the belief that the bugs would be fixed with a patch. They accepted MH's promises in good faith, now learning that he is involved in other work and will not be releasing the patch anytime in the forseeable future.

It was never his responsibility in the first place. activision just thought they'd let some mug do their work for them, for free, slimey little maggots that they are.

posted 03-29- 09:59 PM               

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posted 03-29- 11:28 PM            

Sorry to see his thread go awry. Thanks for the reply - very informative.