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Author Topic:   LOD Switchin Distances and the new planes
Pete Hawk
Pilot
posted 03-20- 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete Hawk   Click Here to Email Pete Hawk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm VERY happy with all the new airplanes hitting the Net for DL'd lately, but one complaint I have to raise are LOD switchin distances. Some of the planes lose their ailerons and elevators MUCH too early upon a little distance increase, and same goes for wheels and struts. It takes away the fun (IMHO) to be in the F3 Follow View and then lower your gear, only you don't see it!

I know the Wildcat is still a beta but this plane suffers from this stuff, and also the P-47 whose landing gear switchin is much too close. If the struts are too detailed then I think you should "at least" have the wheels show up as the distance increases.
With the P-47 I was parked and went to an external view and was thinking "where's the gear?" Only to have it show up after I zoomed in.

I'm not slamming anyone, just making suggestions. I know most of you are concerned about FPS, but you could use the planes included with SDOE as a guide for switchin distances. I know on my planes I keep the flight controls and at least the tires viewable at a far distance because I get very annoyed seeing another planes flight controls switch in and out.

Maybe there should be a standard set for this too. I know airplane model complexity has a lot to do with it as well, but there should be a guide set I think for everyone to follow. Opinions welcome.

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JT
Pilot
posted 03-20- 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JT   Click Here to Email JT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>If the struts are too detailed then I think you should "at least" have the wheels show up as the distance increases.
With the P-47 I was parked and went to an external view and was thinking "where's the gear?" Only to have it show up after I zoomed in.

Hehehe...That's a mistake. I forgot about that....
The gear has two levels of detail, so the 2nd one could easily get set to dissappear further out. I had made a note to fix that, but simply forgot. I'll try to remember for the next edition. Thanks for mentioning it, though.

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Pete Hawk
Pilot
posted 03-20- 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete Hawk   Click Here to Email Pete Hawk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, glad I brought it up

JT, I LOVE THE P-47! I'm flying the heck out of it now and just got DanW's fantastic olive drab paint scheme and am just so impressed.

Thanks again. I didn't want to be the first to post anything negetive about it but since you are glad I brought that up, I guess it's all good.

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JT
Pilot
posted 03-20- 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JT   Click Here to Email JT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't worry about it... the plane has a whole host of issues that need to be resolved eventually. Good or bad, Team Jug would rather have lots of feedback than have people holding back for fear of offending.

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Razor747
Pilot
posted 03-20- 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razor747   Click Here to Email Razor747     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry about the wheels not showing up. After I imported the wheels, I forgot to set the switch distance. I think it is set at 1000 by default. It will be fixed in the next release.

------------------
Thanks,

James "Razor747" Smith


Check out the SDOE Flight Line! I am constantly adding new things. Click on image above to go to my site.

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Pang
Pilot
posted 03-20- 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pang   Click Here to Email Pang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, that was driving me nuts as well. Everytime I'd change a LOD, I'd have to check the switchin.

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-20- 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Geesh......and the olive drab skin was a 'rush' to make it in time for the contest

lol

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-20- 08:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A side note on the lod switchin...

We had 4 people on the Jug and not one of us remembered about that. It's really hard to get tunnel vision towards your 'task', so to speak. If somebody found something wrong, then they let the other person know, and sometimes it was clearly forgotten. I have about 150 megs of email shit in my inbox...I must have every build of the P-47 from the minute John got it in the sim until the final version.......wow, what a difference. We had so much to do to get it in the shape its in, that we forgot a lot of little stuff. Had it not been for the secrecy of the contest, we could have always made a beta, and little things like that would have got caught. The beta concept worked really well in the case of the Corsair. Hopefully, as the Openplane community matures, there can be a more streamlined process for testing aircraft before release. Judging from the overall quality of the entries, we have a nice pool of talent to chose from. Some of the ideas that were included in the design are astonishing. From bjorn's real retractable gear on the Jug, to that dude in the biplane that laughs when you try to drop the gear. Man, that was funny as hell to hear that guy snicker. Plus, with folding wings and moving canopies, we can breathe life into these polygons.

I guess when you build something, you notice every minor detail, but somehow forget the obvious. I guess thats what good feedback is all about.

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Bryan Russell
Pilot
posted 03-20- 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bryan Russell   Click Here to Email Bryan Russell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rush or not its my favourite of the Jug skins.

If you have time can you do a little tut on how to do the bits of wear on the paint work. it really makes the skin come to life. I had a go and the results sucked big time

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-21- 07:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Damn, I'm bummed out. I spent twice as long on the camo scheme and nobody likes it. (except bjorn )

All you really need for the effects is black and white. It's very hard to explain and takes a lot of time...a lot of time. The wear and tear effects are just white airbrush streaks. That's it. I may go back and re-work the Wolfpack skin...it's too guawdy (is that a word?) I think I know what I did wrong.

And also, just a quick reminder, alot this look depends on the resolution of the textures. You CANNOT get this look without at least two .tif files. JT did an excellent job with the mapping. Clever use of repeating textures in two spots was essential to get all of the pieces on just two files. At these small resolutions, even 20 pixels makes a difference. I paint pixel by pixel sometimes, and thats why it take so long to complete. If we had the option of 512x512 textures, man we could do wonders...4 times the size of the default map. I think with fast computers and eventually 32 meg video becoming the standard, this is possible. But as long as people still use Glide....it wont work unless you develop a pci/agp texture set like they did with Flanker 2.

I have said in the past that I would do a tutorial, but I'm just too lazy to do it. The time that I would spend working on it could be better used to making more skins. And, if I gave away all my techniques, you guys wouldn't need me anymore lol

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Burkey
Pilot
posted 03-21- 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Burkey   Click Here to Email Burkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DanW, I think the camo scheme is an absolute work of ART!

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jedi
Pilot
posted 03-21- 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep the camo scheme is my favorite too. I have a scale model of that plane. I do like the checkernose as well tho...

Gee, I can have em BOTH, can't I?

------------------
--jedi--

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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
posted 03-21- 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spanky the Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Spanky the Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spanky here....

Dan I think that olive paint job look great also hehe.

Even if you can't do a full tutorial(which i think would be great) at least come up with a list of tips and hints to get the results you got. I was thinking you used Repeating textures. Thats a great idea.

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Crankshaft
Pilot
posted 03-21- 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crankshaft   Click Here to Email Crankshaft     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan I have been playing around with the Metabyte Wicked 3d drivers on my Voodoo 2s.
2 12 meg Creative cards, and the results are very nice. Ill send you a few screens if you like. Let me know.

Regards,
Crankshaft

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-21- 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I run a GeForce, so I haven't seen any of the skins in Glide. Would be interesting to see.

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-21- 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As far as hints and tips......well the best thing I can think of is to study!! Study the textures that you like and try to imitate them.

For example, if you like the German schemes, then take a look at Nick's(yardstick) work. He seems to have the German thing going for him. But, if you look at my 109 skin, you will see they are totally different when compared side by side. You have to decide which style you like best and then study it. With me, its all matter of black and white..thats all the 'effects' are. You dont need any fancy filters or anything....just time and practice.

The second thing is your program. What do you use? Photoshop, Corel, PSP? I honestly hate PSP, but that's cause i never use it. I use Corel, and am very fluid with it. So, a lot of the techniques I use are found only with tools in corel. The others may have them, but since I don't use them, I don't know. If your program allows you to 'mask' a certain area and then save the mask to disk, then you are in the same boat as me. A mask allows you to section off an area and apply color and effects to it only. You can also change the transparency and shape of the mask.

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Yardstick
Pilot
posted 03-21- 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yardstick   Click Here to Email Yardstick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Dan has already pointed out there is no short cut to learning how to paint these schemes, it's just hard work. Before I started with SDOE I had never even used a paint program, so everything I have learned has been through trial and error, studying others work and just plain perseverance.

Dan, I salute the hard work you, JT and the others have put in (I don't want to miss out Zurawski - as the efforts of the FM guys is oft overlooked but frequently criticised). The p-47 is truly a complete package.

------------------
Yardstick painted this

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-21- 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the compliment. Painting is just one of those things that you can't really teach. It all depends on the person.

Part of the reason I dont want to do a tutorial is because, quite frankly, I'm burnt out. Those 8 measly tif files took almost 2 months to paint...I think if most folks saw how much time and effort goes into just one plane....they would unistall their paint program

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Jeeves
Pilot
posted 03-21- 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jeeves   Click Here to Email Jeeves     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well DanW-

There hasn't been a skin released on your site I didn't like. While I enjoy the Jug camo skin, I was quite pleased to see you do Hairless Joe- I have a model that I painted of the Jug- and it's identical in every way. Needless to say- that skin will never leave the Jug...at least until Spyder adds the Jug to Chameleon and I can switch more than one around.

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Razer
Pilot
posted 03-21- 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan's helping me out with some stuff for the Jug, as soon as he figures something out, i have 3 schemes i did for an early version of the jug that i will release in the finished version. They are going to rock. i'll post images when i get a chance to convert them over.

------------------

Tony "Razer" Martin

http://www.fshangar.com

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DanW
Pilot
posted 03-21- 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm still looking for the templates Tony, I may have to wind up just piecing files together. What are you interested in doing? Just getting rid of the letterning and numbers? or the stars too? The cowling is easy to repaint over, since most all P47d's had cowling bands.

JT was the inspiration for a hairless joe. I scanned a bunch of schemes to show the team for ideas for release candidates..he liked that one. I kinda did too...it was the hardest to paint.

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