posted 03-14- 09:54 PM            

"Follies Sim of the Week: Want some fun? First, get yourself a gig writing a dubiously written
internet column, then get people to actually give you stuff for it. It's a hoot, even if total
strangers call you funny names when you post on USENET. You know what's even more fun
that that? Picking on one particular sim in your column, then schlepping over to that sim's main
forum to troll them there. It's sort of like dropping a nest of angry wasps down the front of your
trousers, but without the pleasant burning, itching sensation. Anyway, the sim in question is, of
course, SDOE. To be fair to the long-suffering zealots of this sim (and having a sort of amused
curiosity about the reaction I gained), I blew a whopping $20 to buy another copy of the sim. I
then patched it up to the level recommended by the SDOE forum and fired it up. My verdict: eh.
For a light-core, "yank-and-bank" sim, it's fine. It's better than the mess I played several months
ago, but the P-38 still suffers torque effects on take-off, and you can still pull max-Gs at
ludicrously low airspeeds without loss of control! (I amused myself for an hour simply doing
loops at 70 mph). Don't worry about things like accelerated stalls or GLOC, either, and you'll do
just fine. Sigh. Well, it's easy on the eyes, the A.I. is not bad, and evidently you can do
something with the "OpenPlane" deal, so I suppose it's worth $20. It's not EAW, but hell, what
is? "

posted 03-14- 11:33 PM               

I think it's our duty as the SDOE community to correct this little **** for speading lies.

But that's just me.

Razer

posted 03-14- 11:52 PM               

Good idea Razer - Release the hounds!

Werner

posted 03-15- 12:15 AM            

Why do morons like this get to write columns?
I agree that SDOE has its downfalls. Compressibility for instance. But this is just simply Scharmers not having the options set correctly.

posted 03-15- 12:18 AM               

Not that I think it will do *him* any good, but if anyone is thinking about buying SDOE, they'll likely listen to what he says. Unfortunately the guy talks like he knows something about flight sims, so he has some influence over there. It's too bad, because a lot of people are really missing out an a great simming experience. I dont know how many times he's been told about the plane paks, but for what ever reason he obviously hasn't installed them.

------------------

-< -< -< -<
Esox=FC=

posted 03-15- 10:17 AM               

What better way to get more people to read your web page than to stir up a dust storm in the sdoe community and instantly everyone will be hanging on his every word to see what else he is saying about you.

Its my experience that people talking don't do any good if no one is listening.

posted 03-15- 10:34 AM               

comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim

It's the usenet newsgroup for those that can stomach it If you've never experienced that forum, you will come running back here thanking your lucky stars that we have so many open-minded, helpful people involved with this sim! (yourself included)

posted 03-15- 01:49 PM               

Now, I seem to remember seeing his name as an Air Warrior player way back when, but my gut feel from his columns is that he's a "stand-alone sim" kinda guy rather than an "online multiplayer" kinda guy. That means he's probably got NO experience to speak of with any sort of DECENT prop sim flight model, because there just aren't any good ones except Aces High and Warbirds, and he never says a word about those two, which leads me to suspect he hasn't flown either of them enough to realize that the two online sims represent the state of the art in prop sim modeling. I would rank the 5.2/5.3 FS flight model as clearly superior to EAW's (with CFS barely worthy of mention) and not quite as good as AH or WB.

If Scharmers didn't manage to get PP 5.3 installed, or didn't bother to work his way through the setup menus to make sure the realism features were all activated (and let's face it, if he couldn't black out and was doing loops at 70 knots, he ain't playin the same game as you and I), then, basically, he STILL hasn't flown a prop sim with a good flight model.

But he also probably doesn't CARE. I'm pretty sure his main objective is just to generate controversy (and therefore site hits) rather than any meaningful or worthwhile review of the sims.

posted 03-15- 09:37 PM               

Now this cracks me up. I guess his own site doesn't even want to back him up.

"The views and opinions expressed by the author of "Flight Sim Follies" do not necessarily reflect those of Dogfighter.com or its advertisers."

No shit eh? HAHHAA

posted 03-16- 06:09 PM               

1) Dogfighter.com picked *me* up. The Follies originally existed as an independent page. They offered to host me after about 6 month's worth of independent Follies. Keep in mind that Al and David tend to be rather conservative sorts, but I got picked up anyway. Whether or not I bring more or less hits to DF is not my concern. I pull the trigger and rock and roll. Had I not gone DF, I would have been picked up as the FS Therapist on (the now dead) Gamepen.

2) I don't what the deal is, but dumping the 5.3A pack stuff into the sdoe/media folder *directly* (not sdoe/media/MEDIA which is what will happen if you follow the "directions") sure didn't make a hell of a lot of difference in the SDOE flight model. No stalls, no spins, rotten take-off model, the works. And, despite the amount of time you all spend giving me the characteristics of low intelligence -- i.e. unable to figure out how to check various difficulty boxes, etc. -- all I can say is: get real. I have been flying sims for years and years, people. More than likely, I have been flying longer than most of you.

3) Air Warrior and Warbirds -- been there, done that, spent way, way, WAY too much money. I think I'm still paying off the VISA bills for my Warpbirds addiction. I was in the 901st Immortals as "mssg", where I had an unnatural love of Zekes. So I guess that "Scharmers would know a flight model if it bit him in the ass 'cause he never flew online" elitist shit doesn't work either.

Face it, boys ... I've been doing this a long time. If you're going to be an effective troll, you gotta have some idea of what you're trolling about.

However, I'm still willing the see if there is any life in SDOE. I'll install it yet AGAIN, along with the PP5.3A, and give it a whirl. The only thing I think I may have missed is -- is a mistake to install Harrison's beta patch along with PP? I had both on my system.

posted 03-16- 06:18 PM            

Make sure you go through the options and check 'enable torque effects,' 'enable G effects' and the like. Its not difficult at all to blackout Take a 190 or 109 (FM's of those craft are pretty well developed)into a hard turn and you will spin if youre not careful.

Spins are there and they claim the lives of quite a few newbies online who dont know how to recover.

posted 03-16- 07:11 PM               

I don't know. I get into spins all the time.

I really don't know what you want out of the take off model.

How is is supposed to be? Thats the best thing about this sim. We can fix this stuff and are constantly working on it. We just work with the people and data we have.

Just because it doesn't line up with the majorites ideas of how stuff should be that doesn't make it wrong.

posted 03-16- 09:54 PM               

OK, if you've flown WB enough to want to give your wallet a break from it, then you know what to compare flight models against. I am interested in how you can do a takeoff or landing in EAW and then imagine that you've flown a "good" model. Have you flown a real plane? Landed one? About the time I entered the time warp in EAW and got back from making my sandwich while I waited for the plane to touchdown, I decided that EAW was a sim where I was going to have to forgive them for leaving out the physics model and just enjoy the parts they did right. (And at least the COMBAT part of the game feels OK).

With SDOE, I at least have to pay attention to what I'm doing to takeoff and land safely, and if I do the things I do in a real plane, the models at least make me see that there IS a physics model at work.

As for blackouts, stalls, and spins, I really don't know what to tell you. If you've got the game set up properly, they're all there. If you can't get blackout, particularly, that leads me to think you've missed something. One thing about 5.3(you need 5.3 AND 5.3a by the way, not just 5.3a), it IS a player add-on, and if you don't remove a couple of the old parfiles (it doesn't overwrite them, but I don't remember if the readme tells you to delete them or not).

All I can tell you is that the Mustang will certainly spin, and any plane you get up to over 300 mph will black you out if you pull long enough (but maybe not EXACTLY at the right time--like many other sims). The stalls are, IMO, modeled a bit "weakly" in that there's not much buffet or noise, just a gradual nose drop. Accelerated stalls? I think I might agree with you there. They don't remind me of what I'm used to in that department.

But overall, I'm sorry, but the combination of visual and "feel" of flight in SDOE, as well as the behavior of the AI, is every bit as good as in EAW in this pilot's opinion. EAW's missions are more "realistic" seeming, if a bit repetitive, but SDOE makes up for that with superior online play.

Sure, it's a day late and a nickel or two short, but it's still kicking, just like Falcon 4, which, as I recall, was pronounced dead on arrival by more than a few guys who are eating their words now.

P.S. I still get a laugh out of your column. How lame would we be if we just sat here and took it?

posted 03-16- 09:55 PM               

Follow Spin's directions here, and also dont leave out the P-51. This one is still unpolished, but it spins like crazy.

posted 03-17- 01:10 AM               

This is what I have:

-SDOE (obviously)
-Patched with Harriman's latest patch. I run SDOE using APP.EXE.
- 5.3 patch (2/18/2000, 12MB). This put a data12 and data13 file in the media dir. There is no "aircraft" dir in the media dir. So do I need the 5.3A patch, or is it included with this patch?

I have a feeling SOMETHING is left out here, because the P38 ground handling is hideous as before, and there are no departures to be seen....

posted 03-17- 01:13 AM               

TS

posted 03-17- 01:35 AM            

The P-38 is gentle, hard to stall, and its nearly impossible to spin. The 51 OTOH has nasty spin characteristics.

posted 03-17- 06:52 AM               

be sure to chaeck that there are no data14.par and data15.par (or higher) apart from the 12 and 13 in the media dir.

posted 03-17- 07:30 AM               

I don't think he has to worry about removing any par files if he is going off a clean install guys.

posted 03-17- 11:38 AM               

Does the p38 in EAW drop a wing like a single engine plane?? Does the ECA update fix this?

TS

posted 03-19- 06:09 AM               

What I _don't_ understand is the way the
P51 pulls all over the place on take off
even with torque and take off wind turned
off.

posted 03-19- 08:48 AM               

Go back up this thread and look at all the effort to make sure Scharmers gets his SDOE configured to the latest greatest. This doesn't say a whole lot for the ease of getting into SDOE for a new guy now does it!

If getting the sim up and running is as hard as this for Scharmers, imagine how difficult it must be for someone new to sims!

We need to have someone step up to the plate and get things better organized to make it easier for newbies! Spanky, Zoy and Spyder did a great job with there online standard documentation! But, it isn't easy to get to from the main page of this site unless you search! It should be in your face when you log in! Also it is still calling out PP5.2 and other out of date info.

Someone needs to take charge to maintain an up to date well written doc file on how to set up SDOE with the latest estentials complete with links. And clear easy access to this instruction doc needs to be one of the first things you see when you log onto fightersquadron.com.

I think it would wise for other folks with SDOE sites to be able to link to this instruction doc from thier sites as well!

How about one of you guys that isn't building objects or tools for SDOE??

Ronin

posted 03-19- 11:52 AM               

Part of the problem is that the "Online Standard" page is out of date so it appears
that there are MORE patches than there really
is.....

The online standard is ACTUALLY at http://www.fightersquadron.com/warpaint/standard.htm

NOT the page linked from the main page!!

In addition, as Scharmers points out, some of
the files are extracted to the WRONG folders

I spent all night trying to figure out why the planes don't fly any better than they
used to until he pointed out that the .par
files are installed into the media/MEDIA
folder by default and aren't accessible.

One thing that I am ASTONISHED to see is that
it still appears that it is impossible to
map views to your POV hat...what gives?

This has been a flight sim "standard" since
AW-DOS...I don't get it...how can you guys have a meaningful online dogfight looking
only left right and center....

Then there is the part about some of the keys
being "hard-coded" so that even if you remap
them, the function remains the same...

Knowing "which" keys are affected in advance
would have been useful information before I
wasted so much time trying to change them.

The tremendous work that all of the modellers
and artists are doing is being shortchanged
by some small but critical, technical flaws.

If Michael is too busy to fix them (I hope not) would he allow some other talented programmer (there are dozens here, I am sure)
access to the code to fix them for him (and us)

Cheers

MikeM

posted 03-19- 02:45 PM               

If ya can't do that, you might want to try the padlock view. Some people use this and seem to like it.

The profiler software is nice... I set up a macro to open the canopy before I bail

posted 03-19- 03:28 PM               

I don't know what your talking about with the views?

I get all 8, front back left right and all the inbettweens. I'm going to try and add somthing for up at a 45 degree front.

posted 03-19- 04:26 PM               

Of course, you may still want to customize your keyboard.inp but atleast this way you'll know about all the key commands that have been reserved so far.

Ronin

posted 03-19- 05:07 PM               

Another thing: try to press '2' and '6' on the numpad together with the '5' to get the right back quarter view. It has never worked for me (is it only me?)

I have tried assigning numpad keys to hats but that didn't work at all.
I would say it's all down to the dodgy stick software but there are no probs using it with Warbirds or Aces High. There were probs with the latter but they fixed it in one of the betas though(sigh, if only SDOE... )

All in all for me the whole viewing bussines is the only gripe with this sim, well, maybe except it doesn't make coffee

As they say: Poniat out
(but who ever heard anybody saying that ?