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Author
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Topic: while it's on my mind.. Corasir Problem
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Nat
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 11:13 AM
   
OK, the one thing I've found with the Corsair... the AI can't take off in it, it can't only be me.. I've set up a mission with the AI on full, all bars.. but all they do is zig zag down the runway cause it's so touchy with the rudder, then eventually crash into each other or the floor or lose a wheel.. you get the idea, and the a/c seems to naturally pull to the left all the time. Is there anything can be done for this guys?oh, Jedi.. did you get the new sounds yet?
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JV~44 "Naturlich"
 If you can't beat em.... out run em! http://members.xoom.com/naturlich/
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Gunner
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 11:41 AM
Hey Nat,
I have several missions in which I use AI's. They always take off fine. They seem to plunge into the sea without commands though.
If you will check my F4u-1 Carrier Opps. post, you will see that it can get airborn from a carrier and land on a carrier. The rudder is sensitive and yes it does turn to the left but it can be overcome with some practice.
The AI seems to fly and fight fine IMHO  -=BAB=- Gunner IP: Logged |
jedi
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 12:16 PM
Well, I think the airplane SHOULD turn to the left on takeoff. It was known for being a "torque monster." However, I think it is a little too difficult at the moment. I can take off reliably by using the external view, and most of the time from the cockpit view, but I get a lot of ground loops. That MIGHT be realistic for a Corsair, but probably not desireable from a playability standpoint. I'm working on it, but not entirely sure how to proceed.I've tweaked the airK (efficiency) of the vertical stab a bit, and toned down the airWash (prop blast) a bit, which helps a little. I still think one of the main culprits is that the tail comes off the ground too soon, taking away the tailwheel input, before the rudder has enough effectiveness to counteract it. I haven't had much luck with that. So, oh OP gurus, how do I tweak that? More airAdvantage (control authority) on the horizontal stabs? Less airK on the stabs? More airWash? Less? Or should I just remove the tail wheel steering and do all the steering with rudder/propblast? I'm a bit hesitant to play with the prop size much, because the plane flies at the correct speed within a couple of mph, using the "true" data for the prop. As for sounds, so far I've got a set from Jeeves I'm looking at, and another set "borrowed" from CFS. A couple of the sounds are better than what's in there now. Haven't seen yours yet Nat--but haven't checked the mail yet today I know the AI can land OK, but they couldn't stay on the runway after landing. But then, neither can I  OK, OK, I did manage to do it a couple of times last night, so I guess I'm either making progress or mastering the plane. Open to any and all suggestions FM wise, so long as the general "character" of the Corsair is preserved. For example, one test I use is to fly at about 100 mph, and then slam the throttle to max. If it doesn't roll pretty much uncontrollably to the left, it's not a Hog P.S. are the airspeed indicators showing MPH or KNOTS? I suspect MPH, based on testing the Mustang. Also, I think they read TAS, and not IAS. Kind of important to know which if I'm going to get the FM believably close. I tried substituting the Typhoon airfoil last night, but the plane became a bit too stable at low speed. Not much of an Ensign Eliminator with that wing--so back to the Mustang airfoil. Might try the 190 airfoil as well, but I don't think I have the time (or expertise) to build a Corsair foil, and the NACA foils included in the sim are unfortunately not the ones for the Hog. The next version (next week probably) has the texturing finished, pilot fixed, some flight model tweaks, new sounds, and probably a new gunsight.
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--jedi-- IP: Logged |
Razer
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 12:28 PM
Yes jedi the plane does need to pull to the left if you gun the throttle. i've read storys and seen the demise of one F4U caused by the torgue. If you gunned the throttle in an F4U it was so strong it could flip the plane over.. Also if you haven't already moved the airfoils you might want to get this done soon.. If you mess with the airfoil while it's still attached to the P51 you may mess it up. When you get the airfoils done, send me the lines you added to the startup file and i'll add them to the Planepack startup file. ------------------ Tony "Razer" Martin
http://www.fshangar.com [This message has been edited by Razer (edited 03-03-2000).] IP: Logged |
jedi
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 12:49 PM
Actually, I wasn't planning of doing any moving of airfoils, until I get a lot smarter on how they work. I was just going to let the Corsair model refer to the P51 airfoil, the same way a lot of the props refer to the same airfoil.There may be a closer airfoil than the P-51 to the actual Corsair performance, but I just don't have the expertise at the moment to evaluate the airfoils. I figure if I can get the performance itself to match by hook or by crook, and keep the physical values (weight, HP, etc) as close to "real" as possible, that will have to do for now, until I can learn what I need to know about airfoil manipulation. So I don't anticipate the need for any startup.ppf changes soon... Of course I could just make a "dummy" Corsair airfoil (copy of the P-51) so that it's already in place in the startup.ppf. Then it could be changed and updated. That's probably worth doing I guess.
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--jedi--
[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 03-03-2000).] IP: Logged |
Michael
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 01:24 PM
The tail comes up too fast because of the enormous (8 degrees) incidence on the tail plane. There's also a bit too much wing area (it looks like the inner wings should have the area cut in half - I don't have it in front of me now so I could be wrong about that.) I noticed that the ailerons are set up as separate airfoils - I'm curious as to why that was done. The rudder is very sensitive because it moves through a very big range. I hope this is seen as helpful; I don't mean to seem unduly critical. I'm happy to have it even without all the final tweaking done. I think the 3d model has set a new standard for the WWII planes. (And I expect that P-47 will set another one.)IP: Logged |
jedi
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 02:30 PM
Now why didn't I think of that? The basics of the FM are all from the P-51. If it worked good, I didn't change it. I don't think I even looked at the tailplane incidence  But I will now The wing area stuff I'll have to look at again. The overall wing area is correct, but the distribution between inner and outer sections may not be (yet). I didn't do anything to the ailerons at all. The extra flaps I could only get to work as separate ailerons, but I gave them tiny chord lengths, so they mostly just look good (although the airplane can be flown now at a pretty low speed for landing, which is correct I believe). I did notice that different versions of some of the other planes in the sim appear to have very different approaches to the way the properties are assigned to the different parts. More than one way to program the FMs it would appear. Thanks for the tips. I hadn't thought of changing either the tailplane incidence or the rudder range, but I'll give em both a try.
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Gunner
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 02:58 PM
I don't mean to be a greedy bastard but, lets not FnM it up. It flies great!
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(Kill Or Be Killed)
-=BAB=- Gunner IP: Logged |
Michael
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 03:27 PM
That's interesting about the P-51. I didn't know it was set up that way. I guess I have all kinds of assumption knocking about in my head based on how the Fokker is built as that's what I'm basing my plane on.IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 06:24 PM
My AI on full skill can't get the tail off the ground.. it just spins around till they crash.. so I don't thin the tail lifting is such a problem.. I can get up in it myself.. just use very very very little throttle.. usually no more than about 40% and then build up to it as slowly as possible to stop the torque bitin so bad.. but I just can't get the AI to take off, I'm not doind anything specil, just trying oto have them take off from Corlene airbase in N Africa... they just can't do it IP: Logged |
Hawker
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 07:11 PM
Mat try to edit a mission where ai takes of from that base,then change to f4u then save as diff mission name see if it works.IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 07:16 PM
thanks Hawker, I'll give that a goIP: Logged |
Hawker
Pilot
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posted 03-03- 10:25 PM
Waypoints and start headings are crucial i believe 180 is south 90 is east etc make first waypoint same as original hding and failey close to airbase ie 10 miles or so IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 03-04- 04:36 AM
es, in the mission that I made, I'd set the runway I wanted them to use by setting a heading, and set waypoint 1 about 5 miles out from that alomst inline with the takeoff heading. I'm gonna alter a mission later anyway as you suggested above, just switching the a/c to the Corsair and see how it goes, it'd be a shame if I can't get my AI to get this baby in the airIP: Logged | |
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