posted 02-28- 10:41 AM               

Ripped directly from ol'Scharmers (I'm a regular Einstein) Follies column ...

Ya know if ego and self-opinion were a positive attribute ... this guy would be our hero.

posted 02-28- 10:58 AM               

Yeah I find that guy to be an ass. His site pretty much sucks too. Not enough updates and articles

posted 02-28- 01:33 PM               

He needs somthing hehe.

posted 02-28- 02:31 PM               

Obviously the fella likes to be kind of sarcastic, and in one sense, his comment probably echoes the sentiments of a lot of people out there about SDOE.

It's not time to start banging the SDOE drum loudly again, so we all validate each other's feelings towards the game, but obviously 2 things would help opinions like his:

1. Have a patch that cuts down on desktop crashes and host/server not responding messages and damage modeling.

2. Have people actually try the game with the new 5.3a on one of the servers against our happy band of sim pilots.

The former may be keeping the latter from occuring. Until people actually get on the server and fly with us, they don't understand what's going on.

Thanks again to the folks who work hard behind the scenes to try and make our online time more enjoyable.

posted 02-28- 03:40 PM               

The funny thing is the same site asked razer to become one of their affiliates or what ever you call it.

posted 02-28- 05:58 PM               

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posted 02-28- 08:22 PM               

"Need to get laid," indeed. I would reply that perhaps more of my fans on this board need to play a REAL WW2 sim, like EAW, rather than Airplane Quake.

--scharmers

posted 02-28- 08:51 PM               

Hah!!
sand

Oh... and Quake sucks out loud. Get UT.

posted 02-28- 09:38 PM               

"Dang...nothing more bitter that a bunch of fellas following a sim that is a collosal flop."

I guess I never have cared whether the things I appreciated in life were deemed commercial successes or not. I guess that is what the right honorable gentlemen would think of as the opposite to a "flop." EAW has certainly enjoyed a large commercial success when compared to SDOE, but has nothing to offer in the way of mission flying or cooperative online play that SDOE does.

And I don't think we're bitter. Right now there's a ton of folks on the server who know how to play and have the right patches loaded. There's enough games to keep you busy from 9pm-2am CST or so every night, and people who fly here fly with their heads, and try and learn more about what they're involved in. In that sense, I wish there were more "bitter" people in the world.

I think "bitter" people are those who due to peer pressure, or fear of being thought less of by the majority, cling to antiquated ideas, and passe attitudes. Come to a quick initial conclusion, and stick with it for the rest of your life. Sure is a lot easier and safer than having an open mind. Takes less time, too.

The only way this sim will ever get a good report from ANY online or "regular" journalist, is for someone who is well-respected in the flight-sim community, who may have even lambasted the initial release, to come back to the game, and give it a try.

Load the game, load the patches, load the plane packs, and log on for a few nights. Fly the missions with the people who wrote them and populate the server, and then sit back after a while and evaluate what they have seen, how the flight models worked on the aircraft they flew, and the missions they flew them in.

Any knowledgable person I'm sure could poke holes in the flight modeling of WWII sims. I'm sure every one has it strong and weak points. I don't have an SDOE tattoo on my butt. Michael Harrison isn't my brother-in-law. I fly SDOE because it has the most to offer when all the cards in the deck are counted. Those cards are things like flight modeling, online capabilities, graphics, mission building, and something I've never found anywhere else in my years of online flying...meatballs like the ones who hang around this board on and the servers. God Bless you gentlemen. Together we will hold back the Tide of Reality, and search for the Ace's Holy Grail.

So I won't wait around holding my breath for someone to "re-visit" SDOE. No one has the time, it's easier to poke fun at, and certainly no one's going to do it after the way everyone got on the "SDOE is Silly" bandwagon. Why, they'd be laughed off the 'boards, and really "cool" (bitter?) people wouldn't think they were as neat as they thought they were before.

But, it really was nice to see the guy at least come by. At least he took the time to log on, read some stuff, and post a message. At least you have to give him that. Pity though. I bet he'd be pretty good competition.

posted 02-28- 10:26 PM               

I personally refuse to fly a sim that Has crap graphics and terrain and doesn't show your control surfaces move. And isn't the FM based on tables?

Just cause its popular doesn't mean its good. The spice girls are popular and lets just say I don't listen to them

Heck fucking kenwood stereos are popular and they suck ass hard. (BTW I hate people that think they have a good stereo cause its kenwood and has bigger speakers then their buddies)

posted 02-28- 11:47 PM               

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Mirthain=FC=

posted 02-29- 04:21 AM               

On the Eaw debacle, it's a different sim and we can't compare the two.
Totally different sims and both good in their own right.
Yeah there's no moving surfaces but then if you hadn't played Sdoe or similar you wouldn't miss them so much. I enjoyed it immensely for its campaigns and furballs but it isn't Sdoe and vice versa.

Anyhow, beating off one sim against another is fruitless and denegrates this forum into what Scharmers is after, a biting response to fuel next weeks installment.

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posted 02-29- 04:32 AM               

LOL

posted 02-29- 10:56 AM               

Thank-you, you hit the "nail" on-the-head.

...MK10,

The problem with Scharmer's "opinion" is that oddly some people look up to him ...

There will be people who immediately piss on FS because "he" thinks it sucks. I realize this is "their problem"... however you'd think someone of his notoriety would temper his opinions with a little thing called "facts".

... Scharmer,

I'll give you two points for trolling into the lion's den and yelling "MEAT"! However, I subtract ten points for your bias and self-opinionated journalism. (I use that term loosely for your benefit)... I personally, highly doubt you've touched FSSDOE since it's initial release. So "now" you pontificate your opinion as if it were gospel.

... give me a break.

Personally I could care less if you or your mindless cronies like FS ... However, other people make purchases based on website and magazine contributors "recommendations" and you unfairly piss on FSSDOE because you don't care for it ...

posted 02-29- 11:14 AM               

In what way am I "following" a sim?

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-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 02-29- 12:20 PM               

real quick. No, the aircraft still don't have those oh-so-important-to-gameplay moving control surfaces. Sorry.

As for SDOE, I owned it...twice. Yes, I even gave it a second chance. As the spiritual and design heir (error?) of Fighter Duel, I pretty much had to. In both tryouts, the sim left a wretched taste in my mouth. (It had something to do with the fact that I while I could crank a P38 around at max-G's at 70kts without a stall without flaps, I couldn't keep it on the runway without using massive rudder).

--scharmers

posted 02-29- 12:28 PM               

Scharmers When was the second time you tried it?

give us a date

Don't even mention PAW add ons for EAW they look like shit and you know it.

posted 02-29- 12:45 PM               

I "suggest" you give PP5.3 a try. The 38 in this revision should suite you better.

FSSDOE is a constantly evolving simulation. (some argue it should have been perfect from the get-go) Be that as it may ...

... It's only getting better. "WE" (the community) are making a silk-purse out of a sows ear. So don't be suprised when the community stands-fast.

We've put alot of work and research into FS to make it what "we" want it to be ... (it surely is not what everyone wants) ... but it's "ours".

posted 02-29- 12:52 PM               

OH but didn't you hear Zur? EAW "WAS" perfect out of the box. And expansions NAW we don't need any of those. I could just play forever with the orginal planes and terrains.

Nope I don't think I would ever want to play a game that was designed from the ground up to be user editable.

Whats that? Evolution? Never heard of it.
I've heard of ripping off stuff out of other games (CFS,PAW) and adding it to my fav game but making somthing origanal. NOPE not for me.

posted 02-29- 01:14 PM               

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Mirthain=FC=

posted 02-29- 01:55 PM               

That said, sometimes when somebody says something, it becomes "right," and no amount of evidence will ever make it "wrong." If you want to make a blanket statement about a sim, you need to do the research to make sure that what you are saying is accurate. That would seem to be a fundamental journalistic principle. Too bad it gets ignored so often. Fast, cheap, good. Pick two out of three Most journalists don't bother to manage all three.

As for SDOE "stacking up" against EAW, well, that all depends on the point of view. If you want a game that recreates a massive bombing raid with "hundreds" (more like a couple dozen really) of planes and "immersion" (journalistic jingo catch phrase), then EAW is your game. And a great, classic game it is.

OTOH, if gamers applied the same attitude and approach toward Falcon 4.0 that has been applied to SDOE, Falcon would be a laughingstock, when it's arguably the best jet sim ever (certainly in the top 3 or 4).

Quite simply, it's not the same game now that it was. Without the continued "faith" of the players and community add-ons, Falcon would've withered and died. Without Meatwater's efforts, EAW would have become stale and dull months ago. How much of EAW's continuing appeal is due to the efforts of the players?

Ignoring the players' inputs to SDOE, and not bothering to try the newest versions just means you don't know enough about the sim to comment anymore. A prudent reviewer might choose silence, or at least restraint, until he had his feces consolidated, but, well, not everyone knows when to shut up

As for SDOE's "quality" as a flight sim, I challenge ANY "hardcore" simmer to fly the P-51D in the most RECENT, up-to-date version of SDOE, EAW, CFS, Nations FC (cough), and Janes WW2. Fly 2 missions: First, takeoff, climb out, try to get the plane to stall, try to get it to spin, recover, come back and land. Next, fly a 1v1 against the FW-190, with the AI set to its max difficulty.

If you can REALLY say that you find SDOE's flight modeling NOT comparable in every IMPORTANT way to those others, then, you'll have proved you really don't know as much about flying as you think you do. (Without turning into an "Ordbot" here, let's just say I have some basis for comparing flight sims to real aircraft). We'll leave Aces High and Warbirds out of the discussion for now, since we're primarily talking stand-alone sims with AI adversaries.

Now, if you want to only consider campaign features and aircraft selection, and ignore things like mission builders and suitability for online play, then that's your (limiting) choice I guess.

I'll be the first to admit EAW is probably the overall best prop sim ever. But to dis SDOE without checking out the latest developments would be like reviewing Falcon 4, V1.04 when V1.08i is the one being played.

Credibility is a fragile thing. You've got to do your homework if you want to keep it. Unless of course newsgroup toadies and sycophants is who you're writing for, in which case, to coin a phrase, "who cares?"

------------------
--jedi--

posted 02-29- 02:19 PM               

I think I love you!

posted 02-29- 02:26 PM               

As for SDOE's superiority as an "open" mod sim...well, that hasn't made MSCFS any better of a sim than it already is. One could post an argument that user-modified crap is usually still crap.

posted 02-29- 02:29 PM               

Cotton. Glad you never heard of him Maybe deflate his ego a bit.

His never flying with any of the recent plane packs proves he won't give it a fair shake.

I don't want him to though. He still wouldn't give it a good try. He is too set in his ways now.

posted 02-29- 02:39 PM               

One minute he trys to tell us about user made addons for EAW then the next he says that user made addons are crap.

posted 02-29- 02:48 PM               

There's not enough there to keep it interesting for me after a year IMHO. If the AI gets tweaked or some new missions come out I'll give it another spin. I rarely 'dismiss' a sim.

posted 02-29- 02:59 PM               

Some more links to "crap"...
http://greenforce.net/fs/fs.htm

And more...
http://users.erols.com/mposis/

Believe it or not, even more "crap" here...
http://sites.netscape.net/jeditaub

posted 02-29- 03:00 PM               

By your admission, you tried the "offical" patch (which in no way dirrectly affected any of the flight-modelling) ...

... These "PlanePacks" that we refer to are user updates to the original planes and newly created planes that have recieved the communities "blessing" (for the most part)

Having NOT tried these (by your admission) .. dooms you to not giving FS a fair shake.

It's not that we actually care if "you" like FS or not ... it's the fact that you flippantly dismiss the work of so many who worked on making it better.

You speculate that CFS's mods are crap so FS's must also be ... despite never having tried them ...

...Bit of arrogant ignorance, I'd say.

posted 02-29- 03:29 PM               

I've been around flight sims for a long long time. Each one has some kind of appeal to somebody.
I've played EAW and to tell you the truth, even with all of the addons it was nice, but not nice enough. When I moved the joystick, and had the feeling that I was flying the "sky and terrain" that's when I stopped playing EAW.
SDOE has been on my HD since I bought it. It may not be the best out there, but it sure is fun seeing it blossom.
The guys here put their heart and soul into every addon no matter what it might be.
And the planes they make are AWESOME! When did you see an EAW plane fold its' wings, open and close its' canopy among other neat things.
These are the nicest looking planes you're going to see anywhere, and they're FREE! (don't get any ideas guys).
People that shelved this sim are coming back to the "sim that wouldn't die" to see the great things this FS community is doing with it.
Are there WW1 planes for EAW? You mean you can't put a couple of wings on a Messerschmidt? Come on.
So many people in this FS community work hard not only for themselves, but for everyone else. That's one of the things I like about it. There's usually someone here who will help you or answer your question (no matter how stupid it is).
This sim still has a lot to offer to new people as well as those that have been around it longer.
Beautiful terrain addons, beautiful planes ( that look like the real thing), aircraft carriers and vehicles. Can you drive a T-34 in EAW or a Tiger Tank. What a hoot!
Just about anything can be added on to SDOE. And that makes it all the more fun.
Last, but certainly not least. What other sim has the assistance of someone like Michael Harrison who lead the team to make this sim. I'm sure that this sim is his "baby" and he is still contributing to its' growth.
There aren't too many air sims planned in the future, so you can bet you'll be seeing and hearing more about FS SDOE, and the great things everyone is doing with it.

Dauntless851