posted 02-11- 08:02 AM               

Whilst there is a lot of work involved, if we can work on one aircraft to achieve a satisfactory damage model the others should be relatively easy to modify. Why? Because, as I see it if we sort out the DM on one aircraft, we can use this as a benchmark and adjust the other aircraft relative to this standard. So for example we choose the Fw190A-4, the A-8 would be comparatively tougher (improved cockpit and engine armour) the D-9 possibly about the same as the A-8 (larger airframe, liquid cooled engine but protected by armoured engine cowling, more vulnerable to frontal damage due to position of radiator). 109 series weaker than the 190A-4, (liquid cooled engine, less robust airframe). The E has less pilot armour than the later variants so this could be adjusted accordingly and so on.

What to people think?

One thing that we can't address is the on-line damage bug caused by packet loss. Jetlag and myself went on-line the other night with a Zero modified to reduced the amount of damage it could take. Jet hosted a few missions flying against 4 AI planes with regen on. It was clear that the host needed significantly LESS rounds to get a kill than the other player (I would estimate about 25% less rounds). When we reversed the experiment with me hosting the results were confirmed as he had far greater difficulty in downing aircraft than I did.

I was surprised by these results and the connection was actually good with no noticeable lag. Whilst I know that packet loss is an issue, I had never expected it to be so serious. Flying against a human, if we roughly multiply the results by 2 i.e. I loose 75% of the hits I see registered and Jetlag looses in the return data transfer 75% of the 25% of my hit that he receives, then under 10% of hits are registered. No wonder we are firing away all night and not getting any kills!

Even if I am out by a factor 100% and 50% of hit are registered, then I will only receive acknowledgement of 25% of these hits from my intended victim.

Anybody care to comment?

posted 02-11- 08:32 AM               

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Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 02-11- 10:36 AM               

Damage model does need looking at.. I hope we have a patch for the damage bug by 5.4 it's hard to get excited about adjusting all the damage models when you play online and there's no fix for the damage bug in sight.

TS

posted 02-11- 11:41 AM               

Yep i would say that the DM if very important. BUT we should get MH's word first either on the patch or the NDA and SOS. That way he has room to work on the issue and doesn't have to worry about messing up all the work people put into it.

What if we fix the DM and then he makes a patch and has to change somthing big to fix the online DM problem. Then all that work is wasted. And maybe he would be more interested in doing somthing he wants to try if he knows we will go through all the planes and fix them to be more compatible with said patch.

Just a thought Lets coordinate this with MH.

Also Jerry has a very good point. Maybe fix all the new planes first or at least the cream of the crop. Then see whats up with the patch and do the DM.

We almost need a timeline That says when new planes have to be ready to be included in the next PP and what kind of conditions have to be met. Maybe even a vote to include planes (as in: " is this plane good enough and does it perform in a historicaly correct way?")

posted 02-11- 12:53 PM               

1) The online damage bug - whilst the host will not have an advantage all players will have to score considerably more hits to get a kill. If my calculations are correct between 3 and 10 times as many! We can do nothing about it but this bug has virtually killed SDOE on-line in European (the only action now is by prior arrangement and at best once a week). I am not advocating adjusting the DM to make up for the deficiencies of the 'packet-loss bug' (that responsibility lies elsewhere).

2) The crappy damage model off-line - simply put, the DM needs overhauling. We have discussed this at length and most would agree that the concept of kills only through structural failure is far from realistic. SV and others have made great strides in DM for the WWI aircraft and I would like to see that sort of effort going into the DMs of all the planes. I'm sure there is more we can do on pilot kills, engine damage and elements of randomness in the damage model.

Of course this will ultimately impact on the on-line game, just as the FMs do, but can a more realistic damage model be a bad thing?

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Yardstick painted this

posted 02-11- 01:03 PM               

I'm hoping to get the new P51D finished this weekend and get the final updates in the pack. I think there was some 109 changes i was waiting on, but i'm not sure. I'm sure there will be patchs for this planepack since SDOE is growing a lot faster now then when other packs was released.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say a week till the offical release of 5.3. (crossing fingers)

Razer

[This message has been edited by PéPé The Flying Monkey (edited 02-11-2000).]

posted 02-11- 02:14 PM               

TS

posted 02-12- 06:03 PM               

Sounds like a great idea to me, kinda a "reflective" release. Maybe that would be a good time to take care of all the little things, like the bouncing when you start into the plane, making the flaps break off, etc. Nothing huge, just a collection of cleanup stuff that makes the end result more polished.

posted 02-14- 12:04 AM               

Werner