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Author
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Topic: Real Pilots accounts
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Snake
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 05:28 AM
   
I was reading some real dogfight stories over at combatsim and I wondered about a few things. Most of the pilots said that after a quick burst or two the enemy would crash and burn, even with the spit. In SDOE if you went up against a JU-88 you'd be there all day trying to knock it out of the sky. Also, a lot of pilots said to get away they went really low level and neither pilot could shoot for fear of crashing. That doesn't happen in SDOE. Maybe I should stop playing offline???? And does anyone know who Sex is?
I fought him the other day. Snake IP: Logged |
Cpt Farrel
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 06:29 AM
Yeah I agree, the .303's should make a bit more damage I think. I know that many Spitfire squadrons later than 1941 often found the .303's useless compared with the 20mm cannon, but the MkI's 8 .303's really should make a bit more damage than they do.
Many Pilots in the Battle of Britain are known to have scored several kills in one sortie, but in SDOE it doesn't matter how conservative and accurate you are, two kills (fighters) is the best you'll ever do.IP: Logged |
Whirlwind
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 06:37 AM
Maybe we just need whimpier engines...IP: Logged |
Yardstick
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 07:26 AM
The problem is simple the solution harder. In reality the majority of kills in W.W.II aerial engagements were scored due to engine damage or pilot injury. However SDOE only seems to allow for catastrophic structural failure. Whilst cannon armed fighters are able to inflict enough damage to induce these sort of failures, the quantity of .303 or 7.96mm rounds that are needed is enormous. To cap this off SDOE only seems to register every other round fired (try lining up next to a hangar and fire single rounds into it).This just confirms my conclusion, made soon after I bought the game, that the physics model is very good but the damage model was poor. There seems to be little chance of short burst kills (i.e. into a radiator or pilot kill) which is something that 'Aces of the Pacific' modelled nicely way back in the early '90s. Add to this the on-line damage bug caused by packet loss, which can render the game a complete waste of time and we have a sorry scenario. People have reported scoring hits all over my aircraft while I have not heard a single round strike and vice versa. I have sawn the tail off an enemy and happily assumed he is dead, only to find half an aircraft merrily manoeuvring into a firing position on my six a few seconds later! The solution? Well, tweaking the damage modelling could help. Possibly upping the amount of damage that a rifle calibre round can cause would be an interim fix. But the only real solution has to come from changes to the code. I hope we won't have to continue sitting on our hands waiting until B17-II or IL-2 comes to the rescue. I have put a massive amount of time into the current planepack but I an seriously beginning to think that my efforts may have been wasted. ------------------
Yardstick painted this
IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 08:42 AM
... Yardstick,I think your being a little cynical ...  "I" consider what you and Mposis do a form of "art" ... Things I really enjoy looking at if not flying. FSSDOE may never be everything we hoped for ... But till something better comes along, It's quite frankly the best we have. If "I" can speak for hundreds of users ... I really appreciate everything you and Mposis have given us. "Thanks" IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 08:57 AM
Spanky here.. Yardstick- EXACTLY. I don't when its going to happen but it would be great if at least half these problems where solved
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Falck
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 09:17 AM
I think the biggest problem with the damage model is that its not random enough, although we can tweak that with a lot of work. There should be an ever-increasing chance that an engine explodes with every few bullets that hit it. The same goes for all parts. Most of the parts in the game have a damage property along the lines of "take 20 obHits, then explode." We need something more like the following:On an engine for example obHits 1
10% chance of explosion
10% chance of white smoke (in liquid cooled engines)
10% chance of power reduction
obHits 5
15% chance of explosion
10% chance of white smoke (in liquid cooled engines)
5% chance of black smoke
25% chance of power reduction
obHits 10
20% chance of explosion
15% chance of white smoke (in liquid cooled engines)
15% chance of black smoke
50% chance of power reduction
obHits 12
50% chance of explosion
75% chance of white smoke (in liquid cooled engines)
40% chance of black smoke
60% chance of power reduction etc. until the max damage for that part is reached and it is guaranteed to explode or detach. This work is doable, just time-consuming. This is one of the reasons I pushed for interchangable parts in OPS, so the work in doing this would be cut down. (The damage to a merlin should be the same whether in a spitfire or a mustang.) IP: Logged |
Yardstick
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 10:25 AM
Cynical no, getting depressed yes. If there is a solution I will pull my weight to implement it. I just find it very frustrating that this sim has so much potential and yet still is lacking in such a major area.It doesn't help when I go on line and get told that PP5.3 is a waste of time because these issues still have not been addressed. ------------------
Yardstick painted this
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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 10:54 AM
Spanky here... "It doesn't help when I go on line and get told that PP5.3 is a waste of time because these issues still have not been addressed." once again EXACTLY!! Lets hope this opensoarce thing comes soon.
MH?
IP: Logged |
Raider
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 10:56 AM
I have seen nothing but improvement with each plane pack and IMHO 5.3 is the best ever. I know it is a lot of work and we (the users) do not seem to appreciate it but we do. Are there other problems? Yes, but making things better (FM, skins, new objects) is what keeps us coming back to SDOE, even if we don't say so. Is what you do a waste of time? Not to me. Without you guys SDOE would get old too, just like all the other sims. Even with all the problems I would rather play SDOE and I always look forward to see what "new wonder" one of you have add for our enjoyment. SDOE has never looked so good. A hardy Thank You to all that keep SDOE enjoyable. I look forward to the day when all the Hits register and the damage model is realistic (even if it is the Plane Pack guys that make it so.) Raider {GS} IP: Logged |
Snake
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 12:46 PM
Yardstick,Anyone who contributes to this game is a good guy. If anyone has studied economics they will know the problem. How to supply peoples unlimited wants given scarce resources. The grass is greener on the other side blah blah blah.
In other words, once one problem is fixed then another one appears. I for one would never complain because I can't make anything as I don't have Openplane. Keep up the good work. About random hits: Sometimes (once or twice) I have hit a FW190 and it started to smoke. Then a few seconds later it completely exploded. That should happen more and it would be way more realistic. Snake IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 01:12 PM
Hi Yardstick I see some things still haven't changed from 5.2 IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 02-08- 01:16 PM
... Yard,OK ... maybe cynical wa to strong a word .. I guess the fact is we can count on both hands the number of people who know FS and OpenPlane well enough to work on the Damage issue ... Most of which are nose deep in something-or-nother for this contest. I know Kopper and Pang made great effort and had good solutions to the damage issue ... Problem was this was being worked on parallel to the PP5.3 FM stuff ... and essentially the DM changes would need to be applied to all aircraft across the board so it was back-burnered for the FMs at this point. I can't speak for Kopper or Pang ... But "I" would think that after all this contest "hub-bub" is over ... I think it reasonably possible to address the DM for the "next" planepack. (In hindsight ... it really should be done after the contest, as there will be a host of new aircraft that will need to be DM tweaked along with the rest to keep the playing field even) .... IP: Logged |
Cpt Farrel
Pilot
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posted 02-09- 03:34 AM
Hey Yardstick, Ok the DM still not good but your's and others work on PP 5,3 is anything but a waste of time it's what keeps people coming back! IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 02-09- 07:14 AM
Falck,So have you gotten obProb to work? I tried a while ago and couldn't get it to work - maybe my syntax was bad...
------------------
-Sv =FC=
WWI in SDOE!
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Falck
Pilot
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posted 02-09- 07:32 AM
Yeah I played around with it and had some success. To test it it set 50% chance of blue smoke and 50% chance of red and it always worked. Ill volunteer to help on such a project provided Im not the only one.IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 02-09- 07:49 AM
Yard:Yeah, if you look back at my first post you'll noticed I said the same thing about the damage model. Since then however, I've grown to like it overall I think you hit the nail on the head though, I don't really have any problems with the "catastrophic" side (which is pretty cool actuallty), but there's all the other things that down planes that the game doesn't currently model. Consider... - rads and oil coolers
- pilot hits, not always kills either
- engine hits that take out of cylinder
- control line hits For instance the first means we can't do the Il-2 takedown, and the second means that we can't do HO's against the 17's. Luckily both of these seem to be fairly easy to fix to me. Lots of code, and likely some support in OpenPlane too, but overall the logic itself seems fairly well known. Maybe this is something that will happen in "the next version"? Falck: Excellent idea! IP: Logged |
Jaguar
Pilot
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posted 02-09- 08:27 PM
Falk: I have been fooling around with this for a little while too. I'm thinking of implementing or atleast toying with the idea some more for the Dauntless. If your interested, drop me a line. ------------------
Cheers!
Jaguar
The FS Hangar
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