READ!!! THIS WILL MAKE YOU CRY!!! BREAKTHROUGH!

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Author	Topic: READ!!! THIS WILL MAKE YOU CRY!!! BREAKTHROUGH!
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:01 AM I FIGURED OUT THE KEY TO MOVING GROUND VEHICLES AND SHIPS! I just flew a mission in my Tomcat and landed on a MOVING, Pitching, Yawing carrier (the Saratoga2) !!!!! It's so cool and I'm so excited I feel sick! I actually had tears of joy welling up in my eyes as I approached the carrier (no joke, I'm pretty emotional). But to think that I've (ME!) just unlocked the secret to this is earth shattering for me! No way in hell will I be able to sleep now! YIPEEEEEEEE!!!!! OH, and get this, since my TRAVEL dof wasn't aligned with the horizon perfectly, the carrier over time actually was submersing and didn't die!! It WAS SO COOL! Working SUBS are possible now! I'm NOT kidding! I did it!!! (yes I'm horribly excited right now! I'm still working on speed and distance issues, but I took the biggest open part of the Africa map and sailed the Saratoga half way across the sea! COOL! We can move ANYTHING IN THE GAME NOW!!!! Waypoints will need worked out but they can be, I have ideas for that. Take a few minutes and think of the potential now of this game! Mind blowing! [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Private Roger Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:11 AM Oh my God!!! Please don't let this be some kind of a cruel joke. Please resign your pack with the Devil so that this vodooo magic can continue. Oh my gosh...this is great! PR=FC= IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:11 AM Spanky here... K well that sounds great man. How did you do it? "landed on a MOVING, Pitching, Yawing carrier" How do you control all that? can you adjust it in the missions or somthing for simulating crazy seas or light chop? IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:26 AM I have toiled and toiled with this for the past year, on and off. Usually ending up with me yanking some hair out. THIS is what made me think to try it. The landing gear! Say you are parked, you raise your gear and the plane falls to the ground. You lower your gear and the plane raises back up! The DOF moved the root object of your plane! So, since objects in the game (like ground objects) can have dofs, and they move guns and stuff there HAS to be a way to make this work! HERE IN lies the key. Over time I realized that a DOF cannot be attached to the very very root object. Bad things would happen (game crash etc). SO, using Bryan Russells OPS program (he's as much to thank for this as well), it has that nifty cut and paste feature. Well, using my carrier I was determined to do some carrier landings on a moving, pitching, rolling (in this case yawing) deck. In OPS I copied the root carrier obj (and all it's children) and then pasted it TO ITSELF! I deleted the ROOTS little kids except for the Carrier1 copy I just made. It kept all it's kids (like viewpoints and such). So now on the new Carrier one object I was allowed to attach dofs, since it no longer was a root object! I attached them, went into the game and tried it. First try... nothing. Second try, nothing. AH, I forgot to hit F6 to take command of the carrier. I hit F6 to do that, then F2 to pull out for a nice long view, and hit the Q key (just the one I setup cause it was already in my keyboard.inp file) and the sucker started pitching! SO, with that unbelievable great feeling going now I added Yaw and travel dofs (travel is just a translate dof with HUGE numbers in it so it goes for long distances on the Z axis), saved it in OPS, and tried it. That worked too! So now, as they say, the rest will become history I'll post some pics here in a few of the worlds first SDOE carrier landing on a moving, pitching, rolling deck I have things in mind for working catapults as well, so keep those fingers crossed! [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Pachy Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:29 AM Damn right PR, Pete must have a pact with the devil... selling his soul for OpenPlane mastery... ------------------ Pachy's SDOE stuff perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:36 AM Ok, since we are getting spiritual now, I pray. I was in the shower and the mind was running like a wildcat with thoughts of making an A-10 II sim with all the new jets I put in the other night. I prayed to God to give me inspiration to make this sim more and more incredible. I was NOT thinking about moving ground objects. I get out of the shower to dry off and all of the sudden I remembered the flag waving thing on the Zeppelin. I thought, what if, using that cool dof oscLooping property I could take control of a ship, hit a key, and it starts sailing? Then the carrier came to mind, all the new Navy planes, and a HUGE feeling of "OH MY GOD THIS COULD WORK!" Then I remembered I prayed and thought, this is it, an answer to my prayer. So as you can see it worked! So please don't associate me with the Devil in anyway, I'm a God loving/fearing man. (I know it was lighthearted, but still). [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Private Roger Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:40 AM O.k. I had to get up and check....hmmmmm...it's Feb 2nd, not April 1st, it's not my brother playing a practical joke....at least I don't think it is. Paul, is that you??? So, unless Pete, after hours, or days of no sleep has finally snapped....the possiblities are, well... Moving Ships Naval Battles! Submarines Torpedo Bombers Landing Catalina Our Pilot maybe swiming and getting into a life raft after bailing out? What am I forgetting? This is such ground breaking stuff. Congrats to Pete Hawk! Lord of the Manor! PR=FC= IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:41 AM I'm going to do a full detailed "how to" page now on my website so it'll be there permanently. I'll let you know when it's up. I also will have the carrier for you guys to download and maybe some other goodies. OH, I just realized, today is my 11 year anniversary in the USAF as well! (kinda neat) [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
nuum Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:47 AM FIAT LUX ! nuum WWI aircraft IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 06:00 AM Here are the first pics ever! http://members.xoom.com/hawkersop/images/bignews Picture 1... the carrier is pulling away from it's parent object! IT WORKS! Picture 2... going going going Picture 3... the z axis of the dof wasn't even with the horizon, OMG we can have SUBS! Picture 4... so THAT'S what a 10 degree pitching deck looks like, I'll try to land... CRASH! In case some of you ask, about that carrier texture. I have a really really nice one now that was done for me (too excited to remember who did it), but when I use a smaller carrier in the game with that new texture the deck isn't hard anymore, like it is on the huge carrier in the pics. It's imperitive that we find a way to fix this... someone, anyone! Then we can have a beautiful ship to land on. Also one more thing, in case you are thinking that the original object will always stay behind as it's child object moves away, you simply import a tiny spec of an object for the main root model. That way you won't see the parent anymore. I tried to delete the root obj's main LOD but it crashed the game. [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Archy Pilot	posted 02-02- 06:17 AM Way to go Pete! I think we should just create a standard generic "root" object that is possibly obhidden. Then we just use that and copy and paste real objects onto it for the "real moving vehicle/ship" We will need to set a standard set of keys for movement/turning(osc commands). We could get Player controlled "online" by converting things to Aircraft type. Way to go man, way to go. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 06:31 AM I don't think this will work with player controlled objects. I just tried it with airplane and the sim crashed. Also for water landings to work, the water will need real world properties. The ground objects just follow their dof, under the dofs control really and therefore seem exempt from the water "damage" that happens to airplanes and such. So I don't think water landings are here yet either. MH may have to do some code changing for that. Archy, thanks. I agree with what you are saying. A standard of some sort would help out a lot. [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
roadtoad Pilot	posted 02-02- 07:25 AM WOW PETE! you are indeed the Primus Pilus! IP: Logged
Falck Pilot	posted 02-02- 07:26 AM Hopefully any code changing will be a full upgrade to player driven ground and sea vehicles. IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 02-02- 07:40 AM Are moving TRAINS possible with this ??? IP: Logged
goth Pilot	posted 02-02- 08:42 AM Pete....I'm speachless. Thank God you prayed about it and had the breakthrough. This sim has been the best all along, you may have just made the breakthrough to make this sim destroy the release of B17-II or anything else. With this breakthrough, the game now can be or do anything. Any time period, any object, any sound, any scheme. This has become THE sim engine! Salute Pete! You are the man! IP: Logged
Yardstick Pilot	posted 02-02- 09:08 AM Come on Goth let's get back down to earth Whilst Pete's breakthrough is ground breaking, in no way are we anywhere near seeing implementation of these developments in the game in anything like a polished manner. I congratulate Pete on his work and hope that it can be built on to give us a workable Pacific scenario. However, if you were to go over to the B17-II forum and suggest they should pass over, what is likely to be the sim release of 2000 on the back of this development, you would rightly be laughed out of the place. I like many of the contributors to this board have put in many hundreds of hours into enhancing SDOE for my own and the wider communities benefit. But I am also objective enough to realise that SDOE has it's short comings and in no way is a 'B17-II killer'. ------------------ Yardstick painted this IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 09:34 AM True Yardstick. It's exciting but it's not everything. Take this for instance. I just found out that the Saratoga is the only type of vehicle that can go on land (ok, it goes through hills), but you can (with some work) import different shapes into that file and make it look like they are going over the ground. I just tried it... although it is somewhat painful to do. The only way these types of movements would be good is for very flat ground, to have an object say go back and forth. The carrier went all the way across the ocean and then back (although back was backwards), which I thought was neat. I haven't tried to keep it from submerging yet though. Towards the end of the line it's almost completely "underwater." So you are right, it still has a ways to go yet. But this does make it more interesting. I'm gonna get some rest as I've finally worn myself out with all this. Later guys. IP: Logged
AE71_INFERNO Pilot	posted 02-02- 09:44 AM Pete you rule man! hope you can work out how to get the Catalina land on water. ------------------ Watch For Falling Focke-Wulf's IP: Logged
Whirlwind Pilot	posted 02-02- 10:07 AM I was wondering if DOF's caused inertia. Have your obDmg x call a function which calls a DOF to activate to simulate a listing ship and the like. Someone posted a tutorial on how to do that (SV? Razor? Someone working with WWI AC). IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 11:16 AM Well, being still somewhat too excited to sleep I just did many attempts at water landings in the Catalina. I had one setup where it LOOKED like it would work! I was on the water, skimming and skimming, slowing down, and the minute the engines (or props) touched it I blew up. But I may be on to something here. Basically I'm thinking I can raise the model somewhat and have it work. I'll keep you all posted. This would be really cool if it ever works. IP: Logged
Falck Pilot	posted 02-02- 11:44 AM I have to agree with yardstick on this one. While this is a great breakthrough it is nonetheless a hack. The game is not intended to work this way so we work around it. In order for Openplane sims to compete in the future improvements will be necessary. I'd put number one and two on the list as moving ground/sea vehicles and larger maps/larger FOV. Somehow I almost think trains are pretty doable under the current code. Just drive the wheels and force them to follow a track. Each car following the other via a 1 DOF pinlink. Yeah that makes me druel just thinking of it IP: Logged
Jaguar Pilot	posted 02-02- 01:18 PM Woah!!!!!! Nice one! IP: Logged
ReaperMan Pilot	posted 02-02- 01:54 PM Well I myself am a free-thinking, reasoning, proud practicing athiest =) Strongly held religious beliefs aside, this new development has led me to one conclusion: PETE HAWK = GOD There can be no other explanation ;-) Bow before him in reverence and humiliation, mortal men! You are not worthy! BTW, if I had a soul, I'd have sold it for... ROCK AND ROLL =) -=TheReaper=- IP: Logged
Jeeves Pilot	posted 02-02- 02:49 PM Heya Pete- I am a resiliant dreamer here- this is a great break-through on your part! Am I hoping too much to find out if we are yet able to take off from the carriers? I keep trying to get it to work, but everytime the game starts, I'm in the air above the carrier and not on the deck ready for takeoff IP: Logged
goth Pilot	posted 02-02- 03:06 PM Yardstick: Maybe I'm going overboard...but maybe not? B17-II isn't out yet, so we can't judge it. And there's no marketing force behind SDOE right now. Heck, I don't think it can be found on a store shelf anywhere, unless its a virtual store. But, think of it. Does B17 have tanks, zepplins, jets, subs, trains, carriers, or helicopters? Will B-17 be able to grow to add more planes, and vehicles? Will B17 be able to span the history of flight, add extra nations, or pursue alternant histories? Ages ago SWOTL was my favorite sim. Not because of its flight model, not because of its graphics, but because there was something special about it. I've never played a game that felt the same way. SDOE is the closest thing I've seen to the feel of SWOTL. I'll probably buy B17. I'll probably like it alot. B17 will likely be the best selling WWII sim in history. But one day I'll get bored with it. And when I do, I know what sim will still be on my hard drive. That sim will be SDOE. Unless of course SDOP (Pacific) comes out with an even better graphics engine, bigger maps, and more bells and whistles. :-) [This message has been edited by goth (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Kraftwerk Pilot	posted 02-02- 03:14 PM PETE you DAWG!! Did you make an S-2 Viking and not tell about it? Don't forget that ships and water craft have six degrees of freedom! If ya need any help in calculating damping forces and oscillations don't hesitate to send me a mail. I'm a naval engineer. Let's take SDOE into the water! [This message has been edited by Kraftwerk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Propwash Pilot	posted 02-02- 03:42 PM I just want say this. FUCK the B-17II forum! Laugh that out of the place. Bunch of dreaming pricks! You go Pete!! Prop out IP: Logged
Snake Pilot	posted 02-02- 04:54 PM Hi there Pete, I think all this is great but I just want to bring up a something. In the back of my manual there is a license agreement. It says basically that anything coming out of this game is Activisions. "computer codes, themes, objects" etc. I know people want a SDOP and all that and stuff but I think that Activision can come in here and take all of your work away, all your ideas and stuff and put in a box, unfinished just like SDOE and flog to anyone who wants it. They could probably patent it and stuff. I don't mean to rain on this all but knowing the way Activision works (ie half finish a game a spit it out) they might rip everyone off. Also did anyone else notice the Me-109 and the Zero in the manual? Thanks for listening and don't flame me ashes I am just raising a point. Other than that this is the best game ever. Snake [This message has been edited by Snake (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Whirlwind Pilot	posted 02-02- 05:11 PM Last time I checked, you put models into a game. They can try, but I truely doubt that they could wistand a very loud and public court trial, which in the event they try, they would get from me, if any of my stuff was stolen buy them. The 'Original works' and 'original code' thing is in effect. Unfortunately, most add ons are 'derrivative code' but 'Original' models. They can take your code for the plane, but not the model itself(lods, tiffs). The easiest way to cover our bases would be for someone to come out with an 'original source' plane and release it under GNU GPL or something. Taking such an 'original work' and 'original source' and calling it their (Activision's) own would be like Microsoft saying anything made with Visual Basic was theirs (Microsoft's). My original intention for the Viper was going to be an 'original work' but due to time constraints (I'm just lazy, for now), it turned into a 'source derrivitive work' but with 'original work' models. I'll turn it into an 'original work' later. IP: Logged
Mighty Pilot	posted 02-02- 06:39 PM IANAL, but those license agreements are generally boilerplate. Nor am I a businessman, but look at the tradeoffs. What would Activision gain by "stealing" your models? They'd gain a couple of dozen models (probably without textures.) What would they lose? Lawyers fees and the trust of a large number of customers and potential customers. It's not like you're costing them sales. In fact, your models have demonstratably increased sales a teeny bit. A couple of new people on the board have mentioned that they were drawn by the discussion of new models. So it simply wouldn't pay for Activision to do that. If they could do it for free you might worry that someone in a bad mood would decide to do that one day. But with the blood-sucking lawyers in the mix it's just not worth it. IP: Logged
IRG Pilot	posted 02-02- 07:17 PM IANAL--very interesting acronym... ------------------ BJN 1968-1996 R.I.P. IP: Logged
Werner Molders Pilot	posted 02-02- 07:22 PM Pete - congratulations on your 11 year anniversary! I don't quite understand a few things about this: 1. Since the catalina's props made the plane blow up when it touched, how come the sides of your carrier model don't do the same thing when it moves? 2. How does this change the way ground vehicles are made? It sounds really cool, but I don't quite follow. Whatever you do, though, please make that Catalina water-compatible! Werner ------------------ Do you support SDOE online? Email Werner to be listed in SDOE's online phonebook today! IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 02-02- 07:41 PM Ok, here's what I've tried on the Catalina. (note: it says in the OP doc (my OTHER bible ), that ptMaterials are "hard coded" into the game. I take this to mean that since the base material "I think" is concrete for the planes, they'll sink no matter what. I made the Catalina an 'airplane with 'ptboat properties. It sank. I made it also an 'CVehicle with 'ptboat properties (like the other boats in the game) and the game crashed. So until we are able to REALLY change the materials of things, I think it's impossible for now. Bummer. On the other side of the coin, with moving ground vehicles. I've hit a dead end. Heres what I've seen. After bring in several of the SDOE vehicles into the bigCarrier shape I have (Saratoga), only ONCE did I see what appeared to be "nothing" moving across the ground. Whenever I could SEE the vehicle I was trying to move, it wouldn't move. So again, I'm thinking the ONLY really new thing I found was moving ships. I'm going to attempt to move the other ones in the sim now. (Akagi, Exeter, etc) It's still pretty exciting nontheless and I still consider it a breakthrough. My massive excitement in the first post was mostly because I THOUGHT it would apply to every object in the game. Now I know better. [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 02-02-2000).] IP: Logged
Mirthain Pilot	posted 02-02- 09:02 PM Pete.... Wow... this is absolutly fantastic.... You are the MAN!!!!! I can't wait to time my bomb releases to hit a moving ship... hehehe.. too great.... As for the "B-17II killer" comment. Ya know, it is still an unrealized project. Second, we have absolutly NO idea of what this game is going to be like flight wise. Third, who cares of this really does take the wind out of B-17II? If this kind of innovation can be acheived in an engine that doesn't support it, then what will be the outcome of later releases of open plane? The comment about this being a hack... well, ya know what.. the biggest longest lasting community driven sims were because people hacked the code to do what they felt was needed. I am proud to not care about anything other than the fact that Pete has given us something that we wanted.. it may not be perfect.. but damn.. it is here.... and that is what counts..... ------------------ Mirthain=FC= IP: Logged

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