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Author
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Topic: Think about this...
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JV44Siggi
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 10:40 AM
   
B17-2 may well be the last WW2 aircombat simulation of any consequence to be released for the PC market.
Let's face it, we're a niche market. The big bucks, so far as the major publishers are concerned, come from the shooters and adventure games..especially those written for the consoles.
B17-2 may be the critical last test. If it sells really well we may get updates for it; if it sells averagely, or poorly, we can kiss our arses goodbye for another ten years.
What will that mean, in real terms? EAW has been taken about as far as it can go in respect of third-party add-ons. CFS is crap. Janes has never been cracked, and it doesn't seem that B17-2 will be crackable either.
That leaves SDoE. This is the ONLY sim in which we, the punters, have a chance to not only add stuff but to improve upon the original. It seems that there is nothing that cannot be created for this sim, including larger maps.
Right now I would say that this sim has about 30~40% of what is needed to be a "proper" hard-core sim. What it HAS already got is in a state of flux, as the guys carry-on learning their skills. Once they have perfected their basic skills they will go on to creating that 70% that never shipped with the game...engine features, full-scale maps, more intricate damage-modelling, leaner poly-counts, and a whole lot more.
Michael Harrison and his crew may prove to have been our salvation. How would our future look without SDoE? We would have been left with a few sims that are, apart from minor tweaks, immutable. Of the bunch only EAW has proven adaptable, and only in very minor ways. Those guys can write missions, paint the planes and change the look of the landscape..but they can't change FM's, DM's or fix that squiffy P47d.
This community, thanks to MH's legacy, has a value that I think few of you yet recognize. It's my opinion that B17-2 will not sell big; not because of any lack in the game's quality, but simply because not enough gamers are interested in the subject matter. The WW2 aircombat sim's ice age is coming again. This community is one tiny little island of hope, the one place where the WW2ACsim will continue to not only survive but to actually keep growing.
That's if we see the cold that's coming and hang here together.
Just my thoughts and opinions..I hope I'm proved wrong, I really do.  [This message has been edited by JV44Siggi (edited 01-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
Private Roger
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 11:05 AM
I agree with you in general Siggi "The Sooth Sayer" However all it takes is "1" game to do well, and then the developers fall all over themselves to try and reproduce that sucess. Witness Diablo and the hundreds of Diablo clones after it.Even a small company can have that sucess. I'm no industry insider, but I read enough to see that there are several people starting up new sims many of which are WWII related. I don't worry. Some smart guy like you might pickup the ball if everyone else droped it and make one yourself! I can see it now "SIGGI'S WWII AIRWAR!" or "Rage against the Hitlers War Machine"...well, you get the idea.
PR=FC=
[This message has been edited by Private Roger (edited 01-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
Jeeves
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 11:06 AM
I agree with you wholeheartedly Siggi. I was excited about SDOE when I first saw an ad for it in Flight Journal way back in 1997. And that was when the thought of even having a computer to play it on were "visions of gumdrops" in my head. Now I have both,. and have yet to be disappointed. Irritated, yes...disappointed no . We shall see what happens when B-17II. I sure hope for the sake of those, like pops and Enthor, and kopper and others who fly for the bombers aspect of it all (even though there isn't a Lanc, kopper!)- that the game is all they would hope for. I know they have been practicing squadron fprmation flying a lot in anticipation of the blood-thirsty fighter pilots out there- and I hope they aren't disappointed. I will buy it myself just to see how the crew positions are handles- I like flying bombers too! But nothing beats saying...hmm- we don't have a Dauntless...maybe someone will make it if I make a suggestion... and then see it actually start to happen. That is pretty freaking cool!IP: Logged |
JV44Siggi
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 12:13 PM
Yes, I remember that time, just over a year ago now, when EAW, Janes and SDoE were nearing completion and I was salivating like a rabid Jackel.
EAW was the first to land and I was staggeringly disappointed when I found it would play at only 640x480.
Janes was next, the one I had REALLY been looking forward to on account of it's graphical excellence. But that failed me also on account of it's lack of campaign and abyssmal sound quality.
SDoE was last and it took me a while to get my head around it's similar lack of campaign, weird zooming cockpit and, most of all, puny maps.
It was the old old story...why couldn't these three sims be somehow merged into one fantastic mutant of excellence!
The cynic in me sees the same thing happening with B17-2. We already know it has no fighter campaigns. That's single play out the window then, unless one is a bomber fanatic. I'm not, I love Axis fighters.
Lack of planes is it's other major failing. Good online play, visavis connection protocols, may save it even with the lack of balance regarding Axis a/c variants.
We know nothing of it's sound quality, even though we've heard the video. Janes sounds, especially the strike-sounds, are absolutely pants. The best I've heard are those in Luftwaffe Commander.
The beauty of SDoE is that ALL these components can be modified or even replaced. We actually have the ability to create a WHOLE NEW SIM with this OpenPlane feature. Brand new planes, built from the bottom-up, over brand new maps with brand new sounds. And it's the best online sim I've ever played as regards lag and connection.
If B17-2 does fail us we have the option to make our own sim. That's what makes SDoE uniquely valuable. We didn't see what MH and his crew were seeing...thank God for their vision. If we don't make all of what can be made of SDoE it won't be his fault. He has given us the tools, let's stick together and make the best possible use of them.
Rah. [This message has been edited by JV44Siggi (edited 01-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 01:07 PM
I have to say that I have been very impressed with the mindset of MH and the whole Parsoft crew when they developed this sim. Noone else in the industry seemed to remember the old SWOTL and ACES series and how popular they were just becuase the users could modify the planes and create new adventures by just playing with the files. I think that once the 3d models hit, most publishers thought, "Well, noone wants to learn all this stuff just to make a new plane, so we just give them these paltry things". The new aircraft and terrain(A first as far as I know) plus the ability to make the planes FM open ended so that we as the users could tweak them till they flew right was inspired. I believe that no matter what the new games do, this will live on. We will be able to do things that will keep this fresh and new while other games get put on the shelf next to the other games that bored the user silly.
Even if MH & CO. don't do full releases of another WW2 flight sim, if they keep the engine open, and allow for the older OP aircraft and vehicles to be integrated, then we will always have SDOE... it will just get better and better, and no matter what the marketing guys say, we will have our sim.
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 02:39 PM
OK, this might sound pretty stupid here, but as has been said in the other posts here, there really isn't, hasn't been, and probably wont be a flight sim thats like SDOE, that being said we all see that same problem of the large companies dropping WW2 flights sims like a hot stone, they don't wanna spend time and money developing a new game. Well, it seems to me that we have all the talent right here thats needed to make what could be "the best" sim ever.. look at it, with SDEO yuo can do ANYTHING you want, all you need is to know how to build it, and you can drop it right in there, seems the only thing we can't change is the game 3D engine... OK lets put it this way.... .doesn't anybody here actually know any contacts over at Parsoft, you guys improve on SDOE for fun, you love tinkering, and you all see what potential is there... so put a game together, put in the bigger maps, extra aircraft and mission areas, make this game all that it could be, not only WW2 campains, but with Siggis F14&15 you can see that it wouldn't take much to expand the game over a longer time period, with missions over Vietnam and all the way upto the Gulf war, I don't see anything here that can't be done, and fairly easily in the game, if you could put these addons together and show it to Parsoft for testing, there could be a very good chance that the game will be developed and released, they haven't spent any time or money building a game, all they have to do it test it.Like I said, all that might sound silly, but it doesn't to me to be honest. OK, you might only have the fun of building the game and never see any money or recognition outside of the guys here for what you did, but what do you want, you do it for free already, and as Siggi said, without a world busting Sim, the market in it is just gonna die off. I say make the game as it is all that it should and can be, and show it to the guys that make money from it, and save moeny cause they didn't have to do it themselves, and lets see what happens. Visions of grandure for the game, and you guys maybe... but you never try, and you'll never know... ------------------
 If you can't beat em.... out run em! http://members.xoom.com/naturlich/ IP: Logged |
JV44Siggi
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 02:59 PM
That sounds more like it.
NB, Nat I didn't make those two planes. They were made by Pete Hawk, the guy who set up the original forum and did so much to establish this community. IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 03:16 PM
ooopppssss.... LOL, sorry Pete  well done there brother.. lolIP: Logged | |
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