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Author
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Topic: Planepack Beta7 Released! ReadMe is this post!
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Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 05:05 PM
   
This is not the "Official" 5.3 release. This is a Beta7 release to check to see if everything is working. This is NOT the new Online Standard. With this in mind, do NOT start using this online all the time. It's released for testing purposes only. Though we will need you to test it online, we do NOT want you to host games with FM5.3 in the title. You can how ever put 5.3 beta testing in the title. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
README
Planepack 5.3 Beta7 this pack includes New Flight models for the following planes. Ju-88
P-38
Typhoon
Spit Mk V
Spit Mk IX
P51 (slighty changed, but not much)
FW-190 D-9
FW-190 A-6
Bf-190 G-6
Lanc. (has the front Turret fixed) Updated 3D models and or Texture mapping.
Bf-109 G-6
FW-190 D-9 New Planes
Bf-109 E-4
Bf-109 F-4
Bf-109 K-4 FW-190 A-8 Spit Mk 1 Added 3D Ground Objects Tailslides Open Hangar
New Akagi Carrier (new mapping and guns, with a more realistic Damage Model) Removed Items All Other Gun sounds (WOOHOO!!) Bf-109e Ground object (with 4 flying 109's there's no need) XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Testing
Planes need to be tested against the historic enemy. Meaning the 109-E4 will be good to fly against the Spit Mk 1. But all planes need to be tested to see how they fully match up vs. the other planes. Planes FM's are based on data the FM guys have gotten off sites or pilots notes. End Readme
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The final version of the planepack will be release when the testing proves that we have most if not all the bugs dead.
The planepack can be found at the follwoing address http://members.xoom.com/hangarftp/ It comes in 3 Flavors for everyone. 2 - Zip files. A and B, Both are needed to have the pack. 4 - ACE files (WinACE is needed) 2.8 megs a piece, so you modem people wont have to download a large file. 1 (large) Self-extracting ACE file. For you cable guys. This post is the Readme, There is no Planepack readme in the zips. Only Readme's for the planes.
Enjoy!
IP: Logged |
Private Roger
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 07:49 PM
Downloaded it, however every time I tried to start a game it would crash to the desktop right as I was about to enter the game.  Any ideas? PR=FC= IP: Logged |
Diego Lozano
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 08:12 PM
Did you say that there were 5 new planes?
Other than the Spit MKI and the Bf109e4; where are the rest? I tried downloading the 2 Zip files...nada, then the big Ace file still nada...what gives? Ichecked to make sure the new .par files were there and...they are!?IP: Logged |
LLv34_Camouflage
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 08:13 PM
190's and 262 work ok, but none of the 109's work Seems like startup.ppf is screwed, that's the conclusion I made after reading the 109 readmes: if startup.ppf is not in media folder, it results in a DT crash. The file is there, so it must be screwed. I also tried without it, and with PP5.2 startup.ppf. No go. Camo ------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 "The really good pilots use their superior judgment to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill." IP: Logged |
LLv34_Camouflage
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 08:15 PM
Oh yeah, didn't see the 190A8? Only A4 and D9 are there...IP: Logged |
Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 09:32 PM
This is why we have beta's  heres the new startup file. if you have SV's WW1 planes. it screwes the others up. http://members.xoom.com/hangarftp/startup.ppf My puter is currently toast so i can't test any of this. i'm only able to be on the work puter to make posts and check things. Sorry. who knows when my home puter will be back up and running. Razer [This message has been edited by Razer (edited 01-21-2000).] IP: Logged |
Redback
Pilot
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posted 01-21- 10:35 PM
Hey razor,Just tried your PP5.3 on a brand new shinny clean install. Used FS patch 1.5
Meatwaters sound pack
and 5.3 When loading the mission CRASH !!!!!!!!
Even trashed FS uninstaller....Cool! Yes mate I know it is a beta.....Hope it helps! Catch-ya Red IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 12:27 AM
Sorry ... Nothing in the PP would touch the uninstaller ...Me'thinks something else went daft. IP: Logged |
Pa Stone
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 12:43 AM
Hay, whatabout the B17 Damage Model?? is that updated? those things are like paper kites at the mo.IP: Logged |
Raider
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 12:57 AM
Bravo, That German plane pack is something to see. The detail is Great. Best I have ever seen.Razer, I bet that you thought that once the beta was out you could relax a little. This is what I get on my computer. I cannot load most missions (Shipped or custom). The trainning missions work though. Except the P-38 and Typhoon crash to desktop. I did replace the startup.ppf I hope this info helps. I don't know if everybody is having the same problem. Thank you guys I know this is a lot of hard work and a lot of time. IP: Logged |
Jeeves
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 01:23 AM
Well- my missions seem to be working (including the training missions) and my Tiffie works fine...but my Lightning is definitely screwed up. Not the (mod)- that one works great! But the default Lightning won't load in the training, missions, or hanger screens ...all I get is CTD over and over again. This is my favorite plane- I hope it's an easy fix- I was just playing with it earlier today Oh yeah - I love the new planes! Those 109 variants are beautiful. Did they all have relatively the same engines? No offense MH (you know how much I love the game) but whenever I get a new plane and start it up and hear that default engine start, I cringe. I also don't like having the same engine noises in for different engine models- but before I went looking for new souns, I wanted to see if there really was a difference! [This message has been edited by Jeeves (edited 01-22-2000).] [This message has been edited by Jeeves (edited 01-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
ReaperMan
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 02:03 AM
This startup.ppf should work with the new 109s, the P-38 and the Typhoon, as well as the SE5a. It's just a matter of having the airfoils listed in this file... the lack thereof is causing the CTD.
http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ccrambli/sdoe/startup.ppf Remember to right-click and "Save As..." Just make sure you put it in your Fighter Squadron/Media directory, and overwrite the existing file. Thanks Zur, Tailslide. -=TheReaper=- [This message has been edited by ReaperMan (edited 01-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 09:47 AM
I'm not resting, in fact far from it, as i stated in the above post, my home puter is out of commission and i have to do all the Planepack stuff at work. Which means i can't test it before i post it on the web. sorry for the problems. it looks like the startup.ppf file is the one thats causing most of the problems. we are working on it and me and Razor747 have tracked my home puter [roblem down to my brand new now faulty motherboard. will be a week till my home puter is back up and running. Razer out [This message has been edited by Razer (edited 01-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
Condor
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 11:42 AM
Hi Razer,First of all, great job so far on the beta. Most things are working fine for me. All prior missions and planes seem to fly ok. 2 things I have noticed for you to take a look at are: 1) New p38 fm rudder does not move very far from left to right. 2) Using the F6 key to jump into another plane causes a desktop crash. I will update with more if I find any but overall this beta looks good. Thanks again for all the hard work. Condor out ------------------
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Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 03:58 PM
If your still having trouble with the P38, try the startup.ppf file above. It's been updated and it should work. I'm not sure why the A8 is not working, the OPP guys are looking into it. as for me, i will be home for therest fo the weekend, so i can't help anymore till mon. sometime next week i should be up and running.Razer IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 05:24 PM
My first impression is that the new 109's are FANTASTIC. Congratulations to the OP wizards, and thanks Razer for compiling all the good stuff.Cheers, ------------------
Pachy's SDOE stuff
perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet
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Diego Lozano
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 06:26 PM
I feel like an idiot...where are those new planes at? Tried again this morning but, no luck.What am I doing wrong? Can I download them seperately? Help!IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 08:08 PM
Ok.... Angry post time..... ;}
Who screwed up the P-38 and who told you that the 190 was a superior turner? At low levels and low speeds with the flaps at one notch, I should be able to out turn ANY ETO german aircraft. That is not opinion, that is from German and Allied pilots. The reason that the 38 was given a bad rep in the ETO had nothing to do with the handling of the plane, they dogged it because it didn't have adequate heating and the escort missions that were being called for were causing pilots too much discomfort... early versions had trouble with the superchargers, but none of this had anything to do with the capabilities of the fighter as a dogfighter. The 190 was not capable of outperforming the 38 at turns. Period. That is not to say that 190 is not an excellent aircraft, but it was not better at turning then the 38. I should be able to snap down one notch of flaps and within 2 turns be inside of a 190. Not have the 190 turn inside me.
Fix this.
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Pa Stone
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 08:14 PM
P-51 MUSTANG!This is one of my favourite aircraft but does anybody still fly this thing in Fighter Squadron?? I was hoping with the plane pack it would be a little more stable in turns but I still end up spinning down to the ground almost every time I fly the thing. Can anybody successfully dogfight in this thing and if so please give me some tips? I remember the hoopla about this a while ago but what was the outcome, is the current (PP5.2/5.3) FM realistic, or is it outta whack but everybody is doing other things?? IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 08:27 PM
I'm using PP5.2 and fly the P51 sometimes, it's a good one to fly, I don't understand why you're having trouble with it though, never have with mine, all I can think of is check your trim and rudder------------------
 If you can't beat em.... out run em! http://members.xoom.com/naturlich/ IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 08:28 PM
To be honest, I haven't flown the 51D... I usually don't, as I feel they are dogs.. always have..... good range, but blah everywhere else..... The A-36 did well, and it's handling is much more stable, but one thing important about the Mustang is that they are very touchy about being pulled around a turn. Do it lightly and they respond just fine, try and force a turn and you are a corkscrew....
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Yardstick
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 08:33 PM
Mirthain,which Luftwaffe aircraft are you fighting against. Whilst the turn performance of the German contemporaries to the P-38 were relatively poor turners i.e. the Bf109G-6, K-4 and Fw190A-8 and D-9, the 1942 generation (Bf109F-4 and Fw190A-4) were comparitively nimble. The FM Betas have been available for some time, giving plenty of opportunity for people to comment and provide input. I have no official connection to OPP but I have been feeding back comments for weeks. Rather than getting hot under the collar and risk pissing off people who have worked hard to deliver something for free, it would be far more productive if people took a more proactive role in the process.
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Yardstick painted this
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Mirthain
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 10:20 PM
Well, I haven't had the fm's till now. And the 190a4's. I am not dogging the work, I love the 109's, they were great. I locked when trying to get into the spit1, but hadn't posted that yet as a possible bug. I was using the ppf file from this post on a clean install of 1.5 and pp5.3beta only.
As for the 38, Yes, they were nimble, but not that nimble in comparison, considering how I have reference to 2 german pilots, and at least one american pilot about the 190's 109's and the 38's.
I am glad that you have had access to the FM's, but not everyone has. If I don't see it here, then I won't know it exsists, or if there isn't a call for beta fm testers, then I won't know. I will be happy to test anything that anyone has, and I do when I see it.
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 10:55 PM
first off let me say thanks to all the people who are TESTing and giving nice feed back on things that need to be improved. Let me first go on record saying that i fly the P51D all the time, it's my fav. plane. The P51 was not changed since 5.2 and should have been, thought i think it flys great now and wish it would be left a lone. second thing i'd like to say is that most if not all planes FM's are based on HARD flight Data. With a few things based on pilot notes. We have been testing these planes vs. the Data we have collected. Not vs. other planes. The release of the beta was for the community, has a group, to test the planes against other planes and human pilots. AI tends to make mistakes, and no two human pilots fly the same way. Thats another reason for the beta release. we are working on some of the problems. I myself figured i'd run to work to see whats going on. being without a home puter sucks. i would also like to remind everyone that you'd still be flying the CD planes if it wasn't for our dedicated OPP group that has spent hours upon hours looking up data and updating the FM's for nothing. all is free and we enjoy it. But once this becomes a job, i'm sure everyone will drop it all and move on. I know many of us already have, and have returned. **COUGH** PETE **COUGH** Just enjoy what you have! help us find bugs! and above all BE HAPPY!!!! Razer IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
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posted 01-22- 11:26 PM
Hey, I am always a happy angry... ;}
I really appreciate what OPP's and everyone else does here. This is the best sim ever IMFO.
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Zoycite
JAG
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posted 01-23- 03:41 AM
I havnt had much time to play with the new PP yet, but please oh please, dont touch the 51. I heard it has less rudder now. I guess some had trouble taking off in it. I personally feel the current(5.2) Stang is dead on. After talking with Tailslide I hear that with the changes to the other planes, the 51 now has its good points back. Other than that, dont touch a thing. Or I might have to start flying a 190
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Zoycite {GS}
GUNSLINGERS
 visit The War Paint Factory [This message has been edited by Zoycite (edited 01-23-2000).] IP: Logged |
Cpt Farrel
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 05:09 AM
With reapermans startup.ppf everything works fine for me, except that I can't find the new FW190A8 (maybe there's just no missons for the A8, I forgot to check...) and the Lanc front turret is still only moving up and down. Oh yeah! one more thing, the Dora is wobbling violently even when it's standing perfectly still on the ground...
Other than that it's a great planepack, I love the new K4! Cheers! / Cpt Farrel IP: Logged |
Yardstick
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 09:32 AM
I'm just off to download the planepack to test everything's in the correct place etc. I was thinking about the P-38s flat turn performance and some stats for turning radii from Eric Brown's book. He placed the P-38 behind the Dora, A-8 and 109G-6 - interesting. From what I have read the P-38 was able to be hauled around in a tight turn by varying the individual engine speeds. Obviously this is not supported in SDOE and not often in other sims, so are we over modelling the P-38 to make up for this deficiency? It's a thought! ------------------
Yardstick painted this
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esox
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 10:13 AM
Hi everyone, long time no post SDOE is still going as strong as ever. I am feeling a bit lame for bugging out on the PPack early on, but *RealLife* got in the way. What little time I have had for SDOE, has been spent in the lobbies :-) Thanks to all the OPS people who have worked so hard to get this thing released. I hope that I can get more involved in the near future. I have downloaded PP5.3 and I have to say, Mir is correct (albeit a little headstrong-  gonna have to put a rope around that boy!) The 38 will not out-turn the original 190 at any speed. I couldn't get a gun solution even by "going over" and creating offset turning circles. I am not very knowledgeable as far as the match-ups between planes, but I would like to help out now that I have a little (very little) more time available. What's the most efficient way to get the plane-to-plane testing done on these FMs? Several months ago, I brought up the idea of having a central location for plane testing. A site where SDOE pilots could go and learn how to test the various planes, and then enter their results in a form. The data could then be compiled in a spread sheet for the OPS guys to use. Is this crazy?
Seems to me that this would: a) get the OPS guys more raw data to work with. b) give the average SDOE pilot a simple way to contribute to the community by testing a few planes. c) be a great learning experience for pilots. In performing the tests, you would learn more about the limits of each plane. I think that if people weren't required to do hours of testing, many would participate and the data would be of some value. Any thoughts? Esox =FC=
[This message has been edited by esox (edited 01-23-2000).] IP: Logged |
esox
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 10:18 AM
cadet??!Sheesh! I have to get busy! IP: Logged |
JV44Siggi
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 10:53 AM
Six months ago the Opps' guys were fair game. At that point they could have been viewed as a bunch of enthuiasts indulging themselves and their new toy, Open Plane.
That, in my opinion, is no longer the case. It's gone beyond novel enjoyment. These guys are practically holding this sim together single-handedly, and by Opps I include the plane makers and painters, who aren't actually Opps per-se.
This is gritty determination, a dedication to a task that should evoke EVEYONES' admiration and gratitude.
And how much more admirable that they stick at it with such scant praise. Undervalued and underappreciated, they still churn out the goodies for this community.
I hope to God they continue to exhibit such staunch forbearance...if we lose them this sim is screwed forever.
Well done you guys, you fuckin' ROCK. IP: Logged |
Mr Bigglesworth
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 11:06 AM
Abso - fucking - lutely, Siggi. These guys are both geniuses and saints. When I first bought SDOE last summer I thought it sucked. Now I can't keep off it.I don't read other sim boards much, but there can't be another like this. I can't keep of it either. I even read the technical stuff that I can't understand a word of. Mr Bigglesworth IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 11:09 AM
Thanks for all the great feed-back guys (even the ill-tempered ones) ...RE: the P-38 ... The FM of the 38 was completly re-done ... as the CG and airfoil data way whoafully off ... The CG (Center of Gravity) and the wings' incidence angles have the greatest effect on turn performance. The performance we have right now is a result of the CG being "exactly where it should be" ... (this is done by placing a traced tamplate over the screen and comaparing the CGs) ... I'll take a look at FM again ... but I want to stick as close to the actual "numbers" and not fudge things to justify any old-pilots recollections
Keep spewing all your opinions and comments ... I'm taking notes!
BTW ... The FM's I worked on were: Bf109e
Bf109f
Bf109g
Bf109k
Fw190d9
P-38 If you have comments re: these, either post'm here or send to my email  IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 11:10 AM
I don't mean to sound mean or anything.. but who is Eric Brown? And what altitudes were those tests made at? Did he talk to fighter pilots from both sides? I know I am preaching to the choir on references, but this is important to me as I am 38 Jock, I don't mind toning the 38 down a little, she has been overpowered and too fast on the turns, but not this much.
I have some quotes from pilots regarding the handling of the 38 from german and allied pilots. Including Johannes Steinhoff. If somone in OPP's would like them to help with tweaking the FM, I would be happy to type them up for you, as well as where I got them from. ;} Just trying to make the sim as realistic as possible.... ;}
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 02:58 PM
Good morning everyone. I got up bright and early this cold and rainy sunday morning and i started on the planepack trying to fix a few problems. Good news! I know a few of you are still having problems with the A8 and K4, Well i've tracked down the problem and both are now working perfectly. I also found a boo boo i made and the planepack over all is 3 megs lighter Look for Beta8 of the planepack in a few days. hell i may even get it done and have it posted tonight. Razer IP: Logged |
Razer
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 03:11 PM
another boo boo on my part, turns out the gun sounds fromone of the planes was put in the game sounds folder, so gun sound files from the dora i think, made it in the pack as over all sounds. they've been removed an long with a few other things that i put in there by mistake. i think the pack is even lighter, but i'm not sure, will have to check when i build a new version.Razer IP: Logged |
Raider
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 03:46 PM
Razer, Thank you for all your personal time and effort. This just keeps getting better and better.IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 04:45 PM
>From what I have read the P-38 was able to
>be hauled around in a tight turn by varying
>the individual engine speeds. Obviously
>this is not supported in SDOE and not often
>in other sims, so are we over modelling the
>P-38 to make up for this deficiency? Yes we are. The p38j had a weakness in that it suffered from control lockup in dives around 400mph due to it's very blunt horizontal stab. There's no way to recreate this in SDOE. According to my stopwatch the p38 in 5.3 does a level 360 from 300mph @5000 feet in 24 seconds with no flaps but from 220mph with one notch flaps it does it in 15 seconds. If anyone has additional stats on the p38 please send them to us. I'm particularly interested in this: >I was thinking about the P-38s flat turn
>performance and some stats for turning
>radii from Eric Brown's book. Wasn't Eric Brown a test pilot that flew most of the axis and allied planes? TS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-23-2000).] IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 04:53 PM
Can I ask a _really_ dumb question?I downloaded the new B8 via the EXE version, I'm on ADSL. Then I ran the resulting EXE and it said it was uncompressing into the game folder. OK, that seemed right. However I can't find any of the new planes anywhere. I assume there's more to it than simply unzipping, but what? Maury IP: Logged |
Redback
Pilot
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posted 01-23- 04:57 PM
G'day Maury,When installing the pack,ensure the path is fighter Squadron/Media.....That should do the trick. Catch-ya Red IP: Logged |
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