posted 12-25- 02:48 PM               

Well I havn't tried it yet but i must say your scarring me cause thats what bugs me most about some planes (p51,b109) in 5.2

Ya know what everyone is going to say though

"be lighter on the stick" i am boys but i don't like to fight the stick to keep it in a banked turn with out falling over on its back

if thats what you mean semmern, if you mean flat spins those bug me too but not as much as the tendancy of flipping over in a banked turn or a loop.

posted 12-25- 06:13 PM               

------------------

posted 12-25- 08:49 PM               

(Razer is about to RANT, so watch out. Please do not take this the wrong way.)

Now, I'm not sure how you stick yankers fly. But! you can't take the stick and slam it one way and think the planes not going to spin. I've read TONS of WW2 pilot notes saying "It doesn't matter what figher you flew, spin happened in ever plane, it just depend on how they happened."

you can't yank ont he stick when playing.

i've flow every plane in this game. i've not had a single plane spin on me in the last 14 online/offline games. I have to force planes to spin now. your problem may be a crappy joystick, sencitivity is to high. The list can go on and on.

i'm not sure about your guys. but i know we are not going to turn the spin down. you just don't do that in a SIMULATION. Thats just what SDOE is, a SIMULATION. it's not called a Flight Arcade Game, It's called a Flight Simulation.

The guys working on Flight Models have spent hours apon hours looking for Pilot notes and real Flight data on the planesto make then fly as close to the real planes as possiable.

The new 109's that Zur has been working on are just mind blowing. The Spits Tail's been working on are too.

This is the kind of stuff that makes people fly SDOE. bad flight Models was the one thing that made thousands of people not buy the game when it first came out.

Planepack 5.3 is by far the best planepack SDOE has seen to date (well at least i think it is.)

After PP5.3 is release, if you don't like the way the planes fly. then i think you should just uninstall SDOE and reinstall it with no add-ons and fly the old arcade Flight models.

I don't mean to piss anyone off, but this is how it is. Things get better, games will get even more realistic cause thats the way games are.

You don't make a game then work really hard to make it as unrealistic as you can. You make it as realistic as you can.

And thats what we are all are trying to do.

(Razer ends his RANT.)

sorry for being pissy. i see how hard these guys work on the flight models and people say "they are to hard" or "I can't fly it, it spins everytime i touch the stick"

If flying planes was so easy, then everyone would be doing it.

Everyone just enjoy a good flight sim. IT's Christmas..

posted 12-25- 09:41 PM            

razer i agree with you completely

moreover, isnt there a setting in the
game to disable stalls and spins?

i dont have sdoe on my hd right now
but you can b e sure when i get back
to school ill reinstall it to fly
5.3 with you all

posted 12-25- 10:39 PM               

Razer I said right in my post that i DON'T yank the stick.

I have set my sensitivity at the lowest it can and the travel is just right. Right at the end of the travel the surface is done moving.

Its not like halfway into the throw the surface is done moving.

Flack i don't want to disable spins and stalls. I'm not asking for an easy flight model. Just one that we can fly.

I'll have to take a look at the 5.3 before i can say if i like it. But in 5.2 i just can't stand the p51 thats the plane that bugs me the most.

We may be talking about diffrent things though

I'm not talking about spins I'm talking about the tendancy in a banked turn or attempting a loop the plane just wants to flip over. And this is with speed. I'm not trying to do this at 150mph.

posted 12-26- 04:34 AM               

------------------
We shall fight on the beaches, in the streets, on the sea, in the air.... and in SDOE!!!

posted 12-26- 09:37 AM               

The Microsoft sticks are known for their sensitive nature in many games but are not totally at blame here. We need to calm down some of the planes that exhibit this snapping tendency so we can lure and hold more pilots to SDOE. I have many buddies that refuse to play this game because of the odd and touchy behavior of some planes and a couple of these guys are pilots in real life.

posted 12-26- 11:21 AM               

well, i see some of you use the MS sticks. i'd never use an MS stick even if it was the only stick on the planet. i would build my own stick before i'd use one of those.

I use a TM TOP GUN USB with a few modifications. It's very stiff.

now back to the spins. i guess you all talking about the 190 when you say you don't like it flipping over when your turning. well from pilot notes from german and us pilots that flew the plane. they all said if you was turning the plane and you pull to hard on the stick, the plane will flip 180 degres on you if your not watching. thats why the plane does that.

I think you should wait till PP5.3 before you really make any choices. We've fixed all the flight models so take offs are all 100 times better,, planes no longer dart to one side or the other. i know in the spits that the plane weights feel better when flying. and thenew 109s rocks. i haven't had time to test the tiffie's new FM or the mossie or the others. but i'm sure they all are great.

posted 12-26- 12:20 PM               

I know better than to get involved in this...but I do anyway... Everyone has valid points, that is a given. I agree on some...particularly the 51's tendencies. I finally was able to make a self-comparison...I find the 51 to fly as if it were a paper plane attached willy-nilly to thread and swung any which direction, hehe. But this is with my stick setup...others find it different. Over time, I think it has become clear that one's stick setup/sensitivity has the greatest effect on the FM changes; thus, a game specific stick routine would be a welcome and invaluable addition if it can be done.

I have tested some of the 5.3 changes done by Tailslide and Zur on the Spits, 51, 109's, etc.....and have to echo Razer and say...I think the greatest number of SDOE'ers will be very pleased with 5.3! And I am not easily pleased, as I base all my opinions on how the sim 'feels' ( as I have absolutely no tech knowledge hehehe!! ). The progression of FM changes has been amazing, and the work being done now and on previous Packs deserves praise above and beyond that which mere words can convey.

Yes, there will be some things to gnaw over, but overall, 5.3 looks like the direction is still moving forward in a positive manner. It is going to be fun to give it a whirl, and I am willing to wait until the group feels comfortable with it before they release it. A note on stick setup routines like CTFJ...I tried that, could not figure out just what the heck it did and how it did it and didn't want to spend the time to learn; but for those who understand the terminology, it appears to be a great tool! I came to the conclusion that each plane flies differently thus requiring different tactics and 'touch' on the controls - and isn't that what it is all about in the final perspective??

Sorry for the long post, but so many valid points were brought up here that it looks like a good discussion topic. I for one would like to see a joystick routine that is game specific, and would even be willing to pay a small fee for it as an add on...but I envision it as being a daunting task ( probably because I don't have the tech knowledge necessary ). So count me as a supporter of that idea, for what that is worth.

Again, good points folks....but wait til ya see 5.3 complete...think you will like more about it than dislike! Thanks for reading!!

posted 12-26- 01:16 PM            

I think both sides of you are right. May be I can add some of my personal experience to it. I already have flown a real Pits and you cant yank the stick at all. The first steep turn I did was only about 3 g's. It takes a bit until you pull hard enough to get more g's.
The next time I played SDOE I thought all the FM are much too sensitive. I used CTFJ and had reduced the sensitivity to 90 to get full aileron deflection related to full stick movement. Still too responsive. But then I reduced it down to 70% and oops much better. I am still able to pull tight turns, but much harder to flip the plane. My theory is that with a too responsive stick you are able to change the angle of attack just too fast and therefore you get into stalls and spins. Just give it a try and reduce your joystick sensitivity below the full deflection angle of the control surfaces.

posted 12-26- 04:19 PM               

Falck I can't do it with just my fingers man, my stick has too high of a tension. Which also means I can't just throw it around.

Razer Thats the wacky thing man I LOVE the fw190 the A and the D its pretty much my fav fighter. The ones i have probs with flipping over are the P51D and BF109g. I loved the BF109g in 5.1.

bakunin I see what you mean about reducing the sensitivity below the min for full control travel but isn't that similar to changing the FM? Its kinda cool like you are setting the FM to your own personal liking but then the planes that fly good for ya have less manuverablity.

Good fix for people that find ALL the planes are too sensitive though.

posted 12-26- 04:46 PM               

But how does this affect the flying of the planes that don't need it? Are they now bricks in comparison?

posted 12-27- 06:16 AM               

I set my Logitech Force up so that the control surface still moves full deflection, but moves the control surface only like 45% of its total travel for 75% joystick input - so the very end of the joystick range pushes the control surface faster - that way the plane is controlable, but you still get full deflection.

This is a very old debate in SDOE - I remember when I could not fly the FW190 at all, any turn input, no matter how small, caused a spin. When I complained about it I got flamed to hell - and I understand how they feel, the FM work is tireless with so many compramises. However the story has a good ending; All I needed was to lower the sensativity of my joystick - not in SDOE, but the joystick itself. This is key. If you set up your joystick correctly for SDOE you will be rewarded with a GREAT flying experience

Whatever is said, please remember that just because someone questions the FM, this does NOT mean they want realistic flight! Far from it! Telling them that they can turn of stalling/spinning will almost always be quite an insult - I know, I've been there

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!