posted 12-22- 06:40 PM               

Get Hooked up with new gun sound that really whoop ass: http://tailslide.firelight.dynip.com/?page=http://tailslide.firelight.dynip.com/sdoe.asp

posted 12-22- 06:51 PM               

What's the difference? TCP/IP packets are guarunteed to get there (and in the right order if my foggy reccolections of school are any good). UDP is not guarunteed.

TS

posted 12-22- 07:41 PM               

UDP packets are safer in cases where there is packet loss or extreme lag. TCP packets will be resent even if the game doesn't need them to be, also, there will be a delay if packets arrive out of order.

posted 12-22- 08:17 PM               

TS

posted 12-23- 12:01 AM               

Mirthain are you talking in real life?

thats true but what he means is its a bug to be able to fly off line and shoot down 1 b17 2 p38s and a 2 fw190s

i did that last night
but online i can only do probly tops 3 and thats if the guy stayes still for me

its not about flying ability
it just seems like online the computer doesn't count as many hits as offline

posted 12-23- 07:07 AM               

Great sim, excellent job, keep it that way!

posted 12-23- 08:57 AM               

As far as I know, pilots take damage and can be killed by hits within X distance to them.

Also OpenPlane supports probability in the DM, so we can make it so that an off-chance 1 bullet hit can take out a wing! Much can be done to bring more randomness to the DM which I think is needed

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 12-23- 10:10 AM               

Just curious about your statement Gun Jam, where you said you can only kill 1 or 2 planes in SDOE but you can do better in FA2? What is termed better? Shooting down 4-5 planes without running out of ammo?

Even shooting down one plane is pretty realistic. When you look at the kills during WWII about 20% of the pilots were responsible for 80% of the kills no matter what the airforce.

Right now, in SDOE it is far too easy to shot down a plane. Totally unrealistic. Example, one burst from an FW190 will destroy a Lanc or B17. The Luftwaffe intelligence boys, during WWII, determined it would take 20-25 rounds of 20mm MINE rounds to take out a 4 engine heavy.

Consider this, the MINE round is not modelled in the loadouts in SDOE. So with a regular 20mm HE round the number of rounds to down a 4 engine heavy is approx. 70!

Consider this also, both sides during the war determined the average pilot had about a 2 % accuracy rate! This improved with the intro of the gyro sight in 1944 (I have to check the date). With a 2% accurarcy rate it would then take 1000 x 20mm MINE fired. This would mean more than one plane to take out a B17 which is realistic.

They also figured the average ace had an accuracy rate of approx 10-20%. Why? Because the aces were slightly bent and were willing to fly in closer.

The Luft. night fighter pilots had an extremely high accuracy rate because they usually had to fly within 200m to see it, let alone shoot down a heavy bomber.

So in a long winded way, Gun Jam (and others) what do you have in mind when you say realistic damage?

If it means shooting down lots of planes you may be disappointed with the new Damage Modelling we are doing.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 12-23- 10:53 AM               

i totally agree with you kopper

there wern't alot of guys around in the war that could take a plane out of the sky every flight some alot of use do

the damage is a little or maybe alot excesive right now

one thing to think about

will anyone want to play if you only get 1 plane every say 5 flights?
is that fun? this is a game and meant to be fun

it leads back do people want a bomber that takes longer then most online plays to get to bombing hight?

i sure don't a totally realistic bombing run would be BORING if you ask me

posted 12-23- 11:06 AM               

I guess my point is that any changes in the damge modeling for SDOE can't be done across the board; specific aircraft need to be looked at.

posted 12-23- 11:14 AM               

yep for sure man we need if nothing else historical balence with the planes

posted 12-23- 02:31 PM               

When you say "I personally don't think you can say that 'x' number of rounds will destroy a given airplane; location of those hits must be considered."

I totally agree with you. After all hundreds if not thousands of rounds were fired at the Red Baron yet there was only one .303 round in him!

Where one hits the plane is critical. Which is another beauty of SDOE. You can model damage to specific areas, eg. wings. I have one written account where a German night fighter pilot used 3 x 20mm HE rounds to shoot down a Lanc. He did the standard thing all night fighters did get within 200 metres and aim at the left wing tank between the two engines.

You have to take into account the type of round fired, where it hits and what it is hitting. Again another beauty of SDOE. The statement by the Luft. is based on an average where they are aiming at the centre of mass.

If you watch any gun camera footage, eg 6 min sample at http://planestuff.com/planestuff/lufguncamfoo.html
you will see when the Luft is not attacking head on they are alway aiming at the engines of the bombers plus they have a very short time to aim and fire. You can tell when they hit and miss as well. Why are they aiming at the engines? Because the engines are the critical weak component of any bomber. We don't have to be that accurate in SDOE because the fuselage is just as weak.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 12-23- 06:59 PM            

If a real WWII pilot could have gotten within 50 yards of his target and wasn't fatigued, half frozen, and had no fear of dying - they would have a very high hit ratio - hard to miss from that distance. But it almost never happened. After all, I sure wouldn't want to be 50 yards to the rear of a real B-17 that was shooting at me. That's a lot of guns to face down!!

posted 12-23- 08:25 PM               

When you add that with the online damage bug it propogates the problem.

Online or offline the DM model is 'poor.' We are fixing the Obhits values for all the planes that will be in PP5.3. Then you will see more realistic values for damage either offline or on (even with the damae bug).

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 12-24- 05:41 AM               

Stark You are totally right man, we are putting our pilots through as many g's in one flight as some pilots put themselves through in one month probly even longer.

We are fearless, there is no reason to care about our pilots right now, if we die "oh well" i am just as guilty of this.

We don't fatige from the lenght of the flight and the cold of the atl. Thats for sure at the most my hand gets sore from this new sitck of mine but thats nothing like they had to put up with. May i should open the window and let some cold air in to get a better effect, i wouuld have to get all bundled and wear some gloves.

-------------------------------

I personally think that game makers need to put some seriose (sorry i just woke up) thought in modeling some of this stuff.

#1 g's can you turn you head in a 5 g turn? i'm pretty sure not, can you be lowering or raising flaps? moving throttle?

maybe we shouldn't let people look around and do much besides move the stick and pedals during h g manuvers.

#2 fear of death

we have to make the people playing want to last on one pilot we have to want to make it home EVERY mission. I don't know how to do this except maybe by making the rookies fly the poorer planes so when you do get up there and are flying your fw190 d or spit IX you will do anything to not be shot down or at least bail over your territory.

maybe a ranking system online too so people can be proud of their kill rate and rank. and succesfull missions. Somthing that carrys on night to night of flying online.

#3 fatigue This is sorly lacking in all flight sims as far as i know and has already been adressed for many years in the rest of gaming. I know you will think it chessy but to show the effect of flying and g's and cold and such maybe some sort of fatigue or energy bar is in order ( i can hear it throught the net "WHAT?")

really though a bar that is full when you get in the combat zone or in the plane or somthing that goes down the more g's you put yourself through i think g's would drain it faster and take longer to recover from then simple throwing the stick around

when your meter is low you simply black out sooner and can't move the controls all the way through there travel

any way i know it all sounds kinda wacked but we have a HUGE advantage right now over the real pilots of these plane and we need to bring it a little closer to reality

posted 12-24- 08:21 AM               

MH coded only every second hit because it had something to do with the max speed of the guns.

We are adjusting for this in the damage model. Eg. total obhits to kill a B17 is 1400. What we do is half it to 700. So it is the same effect! If we left it at 1400 you would have to get 2800 obhits to kill it!

Spanky,

Prime example about the fear of dying: Last Friday night you were after my Lanc I managed to evade well enough that you ran out of ammo. I figured, "great it's clear sailing for me know!" What did you do, you rammed me, kamikazie style. This would never happen in real life. (maybe on the rare occassion).

There is no fear of dying in this game! Unless we set up the 'Ladder' idea where you get more points for kills, winning your mission etc and you lose points everytime you die! Except if you are flying a bomber. This would then make people think about how they fly online.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 12-24- 08:45 AM               

Yep i admit to that ramming. I think i warned ya. actually yes that never would have happened but what i was really trying to do was damage part of your plane and hopefully i would still fly away. long shot but like you said i had no fear. LOL

Sorry if i made you mad

How mad would you have been if i did what i wanted too?

I think MH is fixing the max speed a gun can fire at in the upcoming patch so you would be fixing it all just to fix it again. I would contact him about this.

I'm not so sure about a ladder. Don't you have to manual put in all the #s into a ladder system? Would there not be a Huge chance for cheating that way? OR at least arguments on what went down in the air?

I was thinking somthing built into the game.

posted 12-24- 09:24 AM               

As for G's etc. I can't comment for sure. There is one thing I do know. Once while I was in the military we did 3 parachute jumps in one day. After the 3rd jump we were all so darn exhausted at the end of it!

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 12-24- 11:56 AM               

We didn't model every 2nd hit.

We modelled every 2nd bullet/tracer.

We did this for performance reasons. Shoving every bullet/tracer out of the barrel creates a ton of objects that must be accounted for each frame. We only send every other bullet out and give it twice the power it would have it we sent every bullet.

I'm modifying the gun code so that the fire rates are correct and the number of objects pushed out the barrel is user-selectable.

posted 12-24- 02:28 PM               

Spanky, at 5 or 6 gees you can still move your head and arms around but it's very tiring. After a whole day at it my neck was stiff. If you do those exercises (forget the name) to keep from blacking out it's not bad, I bet they didn't know about them during the war though. Warning signs are everything losing color, followed by tunnel vision like you are looking through a straw.

WW2 fighters has some pilot modelling. If you pull high gees and almost black out, the pilot will black out easier if you go into another tight turn soon after.

posted 12-24- 04:48 PM               

I don't think we really want "reality" when it comes to how many kills we get. When you start complaining about only getting three kills it sounds like you're looking for a shoot-em-up. Is that what we want?

Now, if you're German on the Eastern front early in the war then multiple kills came a lot easier...but we're not flying that scenario...yet.

posted 12-25- 06:09 AM               

Yep that does sound like a good feature keeps the performance of the game up without sacrificing much if anything.

The g force effects adding up sounds like a good thing to me.

Yeah I also think we could end up going to far with the realism. Who wants to play if they never get any kills. One good thing is we could have the realism pretty close and still get more kills just cause we have alot more practice then they did and the other advantages, no fear, no g's and all the rest.

posted 12-28- 08:29 AM            

quote:

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My salvo hit the fuselage and wings. To my astonishment, the detonating shells exploded on the outside surface of the airplane like a giant fireworks display and then disintegrated into dust. Based on all my experience up to that point, I was certain my burst had been enough to down the Ivan. Therefore, within seconds, I cut over to the second aircraft that had been flying alongside and shot at him as well from behind and below, giving him a full load in the belly.
And my second victim didn't give me the pleasure of falling out of the skies the way the rule book says. The airplane simply made a turn and headed back for home.

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quote:

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...on Aug. 16, 1944, Feldwebel Siegfried Schubert achieved the next aerial victory for the squadron. With just three shots from his two MK108's, he cleanly seperated the entire tail section of a Flying Fortress.

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quote:

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He joined 3/JG 54 in the spring of 1943 and almost immediately started scoring consistently, so much so that in just 70 sorties he had notched up 71 confirmed victories - a record that was never surpassed. His luck ran out on 16 July when he rammed a Yak-9 near Orel at low level and his aircraft crashed and burned.

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quote:

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The most successful Jagdflieger on this day was Josef Wurmheller of III/JG 2 who claimed seven victories, despite flying with a broken leg and concussion

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quote:

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... --------- accounted for six Tomahawks of No 5 Sqn SAAF in just eleven minutes on June 6 1942. The rest of his Staffel achieved virtually nothing. ---------'s marksmanship also rates a mention. Combat reports anaylised in Berlin showed that, at the height of his powers, he expended an average of fifteen shells and bullets per victory. More than one wingman described the first shells hitting the nose of the enemy aircraft, then "walking" back to the cockpit area.

---

posted 01-02- 03:20 PM               

I've often read that in 80% of kills, the victim never saw the attacker until it was too late. Some pilots would even sneak into enemy formations or landing patterns flying like a friendly aircraft then start blasting away ! Compare that to the sims we are currently flying..

The magic padlock and map (SDOE/FA2) and the glowing green numbers over the planes (AH) make it hard to miss anyone sneaking up or to mistake friend for foe. Screen resolution is so limiting compared to real eyesight it makes visual ID really difficult too so is it a necessary evil?