posted 12-21- 04:44 AM               

I can't wait to see this. I think since I missed Microsoft as an investment platform, this MediaFusion will be the big ticket (once they go public). Guys, this is gonna be HUGE and it's for anyone around the world who has electricity! I'm amazed by this technology leap. Very very exciting.

You get Internet, Telephone, and Cable TV over your powerlines! Read about it. It's going to be starting the 3rd quarter of 2000. Forget LANs and WANs, now we have PANs! Powerline Area Networks.

posted 12-21- 06:25 AM               

K i'm not putting it down or nothing and i really hope it happens but i of course am adopoting a wait and see approch (unlike the b17 2 zealots)

I'm just opening the page now and I'll have to look over it but what if anyone know is it supposed to do? is it supposed to replace the nets lines and run it all over the powerlines instead? or just connect the 2 together?

anyway I will read but i have a feeling the info they have will be vauge (i'm pretty sure i spelt that wrong

My one worry about people having faster modems (i know thats not all this is) is that as more people get fast connects the net doesn't get upgraded enough at a fast enough pace (thats just a guess but i think its true)

I could see the net getting boged with all us online gaming freaks and all the bussiness stuff , internet radio and tv (yes its allready out their http://www.pseudo.com ) and the warez traders.

anyway just my thoughts

one last one does anyone know if this will help ping times or would it just be bandwidth?

k the final one LOL what do you guys think we would need to have really good online play with the quality of SDOE online now but no lag, formation flying and at least 200 players in one game? (besides the computer and programming)

posted 12-21- 06:33 AM               

k started going through so far not much info but more hype ;(

3 things hehe

1 it looks like the data is carried on the magnetic feild around the cable and that just kicks ass. (although it seems like there would be really bad disadvatages)

2 i love the way they talk about anolog wave being a really good method of moveing alot of data. everyone seems to think that digital is the be all end all, but anolog can often do the job just fine and do it better.

3 if Nikola Tesla was around we would all be using a worldwide lan at 10 terabytes a sec HAHAHA

posted 12-21- 06:38 AM               

ya i'm going post crazy but this topic has my head buzzing

2 questions for ya cause i'm a little rusty in my electical therory

1 what is the speed of radio waves

2 what is the speed that electicity and hence electrical signals through a circut

ahh heck 1 more why aren't we all using fiber optics to connect our hard drives yet? i hate those big ass fragil 40 and now with ata66 80 wire cables

or even better why arn't we using fiber optics to conect lans and such?

posted 12-21- 06:50 AM               

k add what is the speed of microwaves on to the list cause thats what it uses

posted 12-21- 07:13 AM               

k boys this is just blowing my mind

check out this link and the inventers credintials

http://www.dmagazine.com/magazine/bdfeature.html

especialy notice the last page outlineing all the major changes to the compuer and telecomunitactions industry

microcrap and ISPs are dead in their veiw

remember i'm not saying this is going to happen and i hate hype but it is a very interesting subject

PS moderators could you leave this in the general forum at least until the 22? just so we get a good responce of peoples ideas. not very many people seem to go to off topic.

posted 12-21- 07:16 AM               

Cool man did you read the web site though?

Also after reading about this guy i think he is the reincarnated soul of my beloved Nikola Tesla who of course was the great leonardo da vinci reincarnated

posted 12-21- 07:18 AM               

Mr sparklets a quote from the above artical

"A British company abandoned its efforts in October, and two European consortiums have failed to achieve the speeds needed to compete with other technologies. "

posted 12-21- 12:54 PM               

NORWEB

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Jagdverband 44

posted 12-21- 06:37 PM               

Electricity will travel a circuit a near the speed of light. Like 186,000 ft per sec. Might be feet, but I'm pretty sure it's seconds. That sounds neat, using EMF to send data.

I being an Electrician, have often pondered if there was a way to use fields to induce certian actions or to carry stuff, ie data. This is Very cool. What I wonder is as the distance traveled increases will the field like the current traveling trough the wire be subject to line loss (Voltage drop). Speaking of Tesla and voltage drop, this is what made his use of AC superior to Edisons DC. AC is able to be used at larger distances away from its source than was DC. Tesla was very smart and I would have loved to have seen one of his demonstrations, but a smart business man he was not. He died broke You know he used to have Mark Twain along with him for his demostrations. Thats just too cool.

Back to the topic, sounds great and it seems that its gonna give me something new to deal with in my job in the near future.

Thanks for sharing Pete,

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Zoycite {GS}
GUNSLINGERS

visit The War Paint Factory

posted 12-21- 07:34 PM               

Zoy I think you don't calculate how fast electricity travels cause this doesn't travel with the electricity but only along the magnitic feild. Why do you bring up voltage drop? Do you mean as the voltage drops it would slow down or carry less data cause the field would be smaller? thats just my guess at what you were saying.

They said it travles in the microwave range thats why i asked how fast microwaves travel.

Also I have a book on tesla and some people not only belive he might have faked his death for what ever reason (i will have to check the book again) but that he started work in the south american mountains and designed flying sausers and has flew to mars

i know hehe crazy stuff and i don't belive it but its nice to think about i'm the kind of guy who has to see to belive but i also LOVE to dream and don't count ANYTHING as impossible not even faster then light travel.

posted 12-21- 08:24 PM               

TS

posted 12-21- 09:09 PM               

So thats were that came from.

I brought up voltage drop, because its not lessoning the speed at which it travels it's the ability of a given conductor to carry a given "current". So the farther you get away from the source, the less "current" that is able to travel that conductor. So my question is this. Since EMF is affected by current would not a drop in this current cause a drop in the EMF and or its ability to send data over long distances.

Say you have a home in the woods and your serving utility brings the lines to your house. Now you decide to add a barn or shop which is 700ft away in which you wish to have this new connection. Now this is where I am concerned on voltage drop. Typically we would then inrease the conductor size to compensate for the loss. So I wonder if there is any requirments to keep the signal as strong as possible that would fall outside what is already done in the trade.

Also what about interference? Say your Pc is connected to a non-dedicated ciruit which feeds 10 other receptacles in your home. You have say a Tv, some lamps, maybe a fish tank, what ever, and since this circuit is under load, does this load affect your connection. There are quite afew electronic items that even the slightest load can cause trouble.

It would be great if all you had to do was sign up and thats it, but I guess we will see.

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Zoycite {GS}
GUNSLINGERS

visit The War Paint Factory

posted 12-21- 09:29 PM            

One major problem with this system is weather conditions. High tension towers are constantly being struck by lightning durning storms - which has very little effect on the current in the lines but causes drastic changes in the magnetic fields along those lines. It's actually very much like a small electro-magnetic pulse. This would wreak havoc with a data transmission - especially an analog transmission.

The reason electronics have gone away from analog signals is very simple - reliability. Analog, while a good data carrier is very inefficient as far as computers are concerened, it is also far more likely to experience interfernece than a digital signal. From my experience, the fact that this system is limited to analog transmission does not bode well for the project. While an analog signal is certainly theoretically capable of 2.5GB transmissions the reality will be much much slower. Also, that's 2.5GB total capacity on the electric lines, not per house.

You'll probably get no more than 1-2MB/s per house out of a system like this - and that's only if the atmospheric conditions don't intervene (ie, no lightning storms).

Not trying to rain on anybodys day, and it is still a very cool idea and will allow access virtually anyplace you can plug you computer in, but there is a lot of hype on that page that can't be backed by realistic science.

Just my .03!

posted 12-21- 10:07 PM               

well i had a huge nicly formed post about this subject but since somthing is being stupid and i have to type in my user and pass everytime i visit i lost it(even though i told it to save my pass and user for 1 year)

so go read this link

http://www.dmagazine.com/december99/bdfeature.html

The man has amazing credintials and is nominated for a nobel prize, I hear they don't just give those things away.

posted 12-21- 11:56 PM            

That's a nice article, and no they don't just hand out Nobels like candy - they do however hand out Nobels for good ideas, and a great many Nobel worthy ideas never pan out.

Something else in the article should raise peoples eyebrows if they stop to think about it, and it's something I mentioned earlier..

quote:

---

Stewart knows this will work because you can “hear” a lightning strike in Miami through the electric grid all the way to San Diego. Once he realized that, he figured he could find a way to send communications signals through the electric grid, too. It was just a matter of working out the details.

---

If you can "hear" a single lightning strike from Miami to San Diego then your network can be disrupted by the same said lightning bolt - over the same area. Huge technical problem there - not that it can't be solved (most technical problems can be; given enough time, talent, and money) but it is a major factor in the viability of a system like this. I'm certain the technology works, I'm also certain that at this time it does not have a sustained data rate of 2.5GB/s to the home. For one thing, after the power has left the high-load wires and has been stepped down to houshold current levels there is no longer sufficient EM field generation occuring to support more than about 8-10MB/s under optimal circumstances. Throw in all the interference from your average house full of appliances, which are unbelievably noisy (EM wise)and that drops to 1-2MB/s. Still not a shoddy connection by any means - and it still opens the doors wide for true worldwide access to the net. But it does have technical issues to solve.

BTW - I know about the EM field generated by power lines because at one point it was my job to study them. Not for data transmission, but as a source of interference for telco transmissions - which often share the same towers for long distance lines.

This is a company trying to get off the ground and make money. They are going to post only the best case scenarios on their site - thats just good business sense.

Nonetheless, it will be a new era if this technology ever really catches on.

Stark

[This message has been edited by Stark (edited 12-21-1999).]

Spanky, I just noticed that the opening to this post could sound stuck-up. Wasn't meant that way! Just trying to caution that if it sounds too good to be true...well you get the drift

posted 12-22- 02:08 AM               

Kinda makes you dizzy just thinking about it, huh?!

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Jagdverband 44

posted 12-23- 12:29 AM               

hi guys

I'm not mad or nothing stark obviosly knows his shit much more then i do
my knowlege of the subject is from a couple highschool subjects in elec and physics and a hell of alot of reading

all i wanted to do was try to create some intrest in it and get some feedback from you guys and i did thats cool

i love talking to some inteligent people instead of the stupid people i meet in everyday life

i am HUGELY sceptical hehe hows that for grammer

i just hope it works out even at 1 tenth that rate it would be cool

i am very aware of the hype but they do say they solved the transformer problem
just hype but its better then nothing
if its true it gets them one step closer

my biggest worry is the interference too
seems to good to be true

i now nothing about the data a magnetic feild can carry thanks for the imput stark

one more thing thats sounds like hype on crack was in the artical it says he is making a new operating system that will blow win98 away

sounds a little crazy of a statement to be making

hehe
i am more sceptical about that happening

LOL

posted 12-23- 03:27 AM               

Spanky, you asked: "1 what is the speed of radio waves? k add what is the speed of microwaves on to the list cause thats what it uses?"

You should know this you idjit!! As far as I know microwaves and radiowaves are both light, just not in our visible spectrum. So they should both move at the speed of light.

If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear about it.

posted 12-23- 03:39 AM               

yeah i guess so but i thought diffent waves moved at diffent speeds

we have to break out the books man
very interesting

i still think if tesla was around he would have sloved it along time ago